i did not deserve any votes as my definition was a mean spirited jibe at the mackenzie clan, beneath me as a 'child/son of grace and/or strength' ( rough translation). the mackenzies have often been accused of being a subsidiary of the campbell clan having hidden beneath their armoured apron strings many years ago. was checking this out on a website that i am now unable to find, will post it (if you are interested in the in-fightings of scottish-irish clans centuries ago that is) when i come across it again. well done shona, it didn't quite convince me but i liked it a lot