C.K., I'm finally getting around to a more thought-out reply. You clearly recognize and accept that women are in
fact equally capable, and just as deserving of rewards for their efforts. This is one of the many reasons I admire you.
Your comment on the generations reminded me of a statement that I can only paraphrase, having not only forgotten the exact words, but the source, whom I think is a black female:
Wearing heels, I stride through doors that were pushed open by my grandmother crawling barefoot. (The ref. to high-heeled shoes being to something that only high-level-job people wear.)
You said that women in NZ say what they want to , however they want to, and do things like announce that they have gone to bars looking for one-night stands. I believe I picked up a hint that you disapprove of this, and I also have the feeling that you disapprove of men doing this. (If I am wrong, feel free to correct me.) But based on that
belief, I will add that I agree that there is a time and a
place for crude language and behavior, and that most group settings, including work, is not one of them. In my opinion, this demonstrates one or more of the following:
the speaker doesn't know any better, which is really sad;
is demonstrating a lack of consideration for others, as though they are thinking, "My words offend you? Too bad for you, sucker!"; the speaker believes/hopes this usage will demonstrate the allegation that they are something they really aren't--similar to the effect young teens are trying to give by smoking.
There is nothing derogatory in demonstrating that one has been taught good manners, and uses them. Good manners most
definitely involves consideration of others. If someone is
constantly flaunting their lack of good manners, this says
a great deal about them, and all around them know it--unless they are with people of like mind, in which case it
doesn't matter as much.
I have no problem with myself or others hearing and using
uncouth language to people who know us well--that is, those whom we know who will not be offended. But I am of the
irrevocable opinion that there are certain things that should, quite simply, be kept private.
Going down a side path for a moment: each of has different things that offend us. I have my own, unjustified set of things I take offense at: d-mn and h-ll don't bother me,
but I was raised that the b--t word for one's backside was a bad word, so I don't use that--I think it slipped out one
time; and I absolutely, never, ever, use that a-- word---I
can't abide it, I just can't. And while I'm ranting, I really don't care to know what kind of undergarments people wear, and I most especially do not want to know what kind of private activities people consider "fun".
This, I think, emphasizes all the more my earlier point about how important it is to have consideration for others,
and that if someone perseveres with behavior that they know offends someone, this tells a great deal about what they are like.
