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Joined: Oct 2001
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 247 |
They got plenty to learn about in school these days without learning pieces of nonsense about rolling stones
A curious thing to hear from an evangelical grammarian.
That's an example of Faldage's sense of humor--it's his endearing side.
Aha! In that case, "Bravo", Faldage.
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Gosh, wordminstrel, you're being so literal!  That's an example of Faldage's sense of humor--it's his endearing side. Turn that stone over to its other side and you'll see what I mean.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 247
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 247 |
are you helping?
Good Qs all, etaoin, 'cept my Q was sincere.
Zed reported that a handy cognitive test using proverbs has fallen out of use because no-one knows the proverbs anymore. My surprise is genuine. Likewise, my inquiry about the reason for this.
I don't think "proverbs" were ever actually taught in school, at least, on a systematic basis. They were just absorbed into our language without conscious drilling. How else could they have been passed down to us, in some cases, through several centuries?
So, where have all the "proverbs" gone ... long time passing?
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
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yah, sorry. I tend to kneejerk my reax when it comes to school. bein' a edukater an' all...
there is still some talk of Aesop in schools, but there is no question that schools have changed. however, I think you're right when you say that proverbs weren't necessarily a big part of school for most of us. a lot of us picked that up at church, and I think that there are fewer kids going to churches that use that sort of teaching. I also had a ton of books growing up(go figure), and there were many collections of good stories and proverbs and fables, etc...
anyway, the best thing that us wordy types can do is volunteer at schools to read to kids, to tell stories, to help out in the classroom and show kids that words and stories are cool, and that there are adults out there that love them. words and kids, that is...
formerly known as etaoin...
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
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wordmin and Cap: when's the last time you spent any time in a public school? have you volunteered your time? have you read to your children? are you helping?
I taught for six years at tertiary level. I don't have the patience or the stamina to take on anybody who isn't old enough to drink. That was enough. If you can't beat 'em, ignore 'em. Damn, there's another "proverb". Although I guess it's more of an axiom in my case.
- Pfranz
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154 |
Actually I think it has more to do with the isolation of generations than with schools. Kids nowadays (just saying that makes me feel like someone's great aunt) have had much less contact with other age groups than any other generations. They know a great many kids within 2 years of their own age and a few career age adults including teachers and parents. As a result they don't hear the expressions and aphorisms and stories that used to be passed down in conversation. The generation that are parents now were almost as segregated so aren't able to pass them on, even if there was the level of conversation as recreation that it would require. Having videos even in the back seat of the car isn't going to help either.
I read of an inner school project in London to reduce shcoolyard violence. The teachers realized that the kids were so segragated by age that they didn't learn the traditional schoolyard games from the older kids. When the teachers took turns teaching marbles, skipping games, hopscotch etc bullying and fights dropped dramatically as the kids now were active instead of bored.
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Joined: Mar 2000
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
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strictly concrete and strictly abstract thought
It's the term strictly that bothers me here. Even pure perception involves a good deal of abstraction (distinction of object from background). At the moment you reflect on the perceived thing and try to categorize it, you already reach a higher level of abstraction. A "strictly abstract thought" would probably lack any connection with experience - and only with luck it would escape the label of nonsense.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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RE: they didn't learn the traditional schoolyard games from the older kids.
Yes, the same is true here in US... My Sister, who lives in Japan just started there as a member of the cultural exchange program, and plans lessons for primary students about how school in Japan is different than in US, and/or other countries. (it is a school based program, she works two days a week)
For instance, all Japanese school children learn to ride a unicycle as part of their Phys Ed program.
She contacted me, to get some school yard games, (jacks, tiddly winks, pick up sticks)to share--but these are hard to get, since kids no longer play them. We played skully, too,(there is a thread some where back almost years ago about skully, and other kids games)and ring-a-levio, but my kids didn't play these games. and most kids today don't even play jump rope, or clapping games,(or even counting out games for who will be it, in Tag) and don't know the songs and words to them.
I remember reading once that the eeny, meeny, miney, moe, of the old count out song, is based on old counting chants use by shepherds, and is related to the old welsh words for 1, 2, 3. it had other "verses", similar to One,two, buckle my shoe, and was used in oral based society to teach counting.
eeny, meeny, miney, moe,
Catch a (******) by your toe (we used tiger, for ****, but other animals and even ethnic groups have been used)
If he cries out let him go,
eeny, meeny, miney, moe,
You are it!
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Joined: Aug 2001
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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eeny, meeny, miney, moe,
Catch a (******) by your toe
If he cries out let him go,
eeny, meeny, miney, moe,
You are it!
Up in the Bronx it went
"Eeny, meeny, miney, mo,
Catch a ****** by the toe,
If he hollers let him go
My mother says to pick this one and out goes y-o-U"
Note the slightly different dialect, in words and syllable count.
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