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#99351 03/25/03 04:12 PM
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In looking for more information about "en banc" I found dictionarty entry which raises another question:
Banc, Bancus, Bank
Banc (?), Ban"cus (?), Bank (?), n. [OF. banc, LL. bancus. See Bank, n.] A bench; a high seat, or seat of distinction or judgment; a tribunal or court. In banc, In banco (the ablative of bancus), In bank, in full court, or with full judicial authority; as, sittings in banc (distinguished from sittings at nisi prius).

What in hell does "nisi prius" mean in this context. Gotta go look that up.


#99352 03/25/03 04:29 PM
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"Nisi prius" really opens a can of worms. Nay, a pailfull:
http://www.chrononhotonthologos.com/lawnotes/nisiprius.htm

May we be so fortuate as to have Dawn shed a bit of light on this?


#99353 03/25/03 05:17 PM
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Cool, wwh! So, if I'm ever accused of a terrible crime, I now know it's my right to ask that the trial be conducted in a court of record, which would take my case out of statuatory perameters! Cool! Of course, my request could be denied, I suppose.

I wish Sparteye would look in on this one...


#99354 03/25/03 07:09 PM
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From The Mikado:
"...
And that nisi prius nuisance who just now is rather rife:
The Judicial Humourist! I've got him on the list!..."


How does he fit into this context? I can't believe someone as precise as WS Gilbert would have chosen the term at random.


#99355 03/25/03 07:29 PM
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The song's just too good not to paste in toto:

I've Got a Little List

SONG--KO-KO with CHORUS OF MEN.

As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list--I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed--who never would be missed!
There's the pestilential nuisances who write for autographs--
All people who have flabby hands and irritating laughs--
All children who are up in dates, and floor you with 'em flat--
All persons who in shaking hands, shake hands with you like _that_--
And all third persons who on spoiling tete-a-tetes insist--
They'd none of 'em be missed--they'd none of 'em be missed!

CHORUS. He's got 'em on the list--he's got 'em on the list;
And they'll none of 'em be missed--they'll none of
'em be missed.

There's the banjo serenader, and the others of his race,
And the piano-organist--I've got him on the list!
And the people who eat peppermint and puff it in your face,
They never would be missed--they never would be missed!
Then the idiot who praises, with enthusiastic tone,
All centuries but this, and every country but his own;
And the lady from the provinces, who dresses like a guy,
And who "doesn't think she waltzes, but would rather like to
try";
And that singular anomaly, the lady novelist--
I don't think she'd be missed--I'm sure she'd not he missed!

CHORUS. He's got her on the list--he's got her on the list;
And I don't think she'll be missed--I'm sure
she'll not be missed!

And that Nisi Prius nuisance, who just now is rather rife,
The Judicial humorist--I've got him on the list!
All funny fellows, comic men, and clowns of private life--
They'd none of 'em be missed--they'd none of 'em be missed.
And apologetic statesmen of a compromising kind,
Such as--What d'ye call him--Thing'em-bob, and
likewise--Never-mind,
And 'St--'st--'st--and What's-his-name, and also You-know-who--
The task of filling up the blanks I'd rather leave to you.
But it really doesn't matter whom you put upon the list,
For they'd none of 'em be missed--they'd none of 'em be
missed!

CHORUS. You may put 'em on the list--you may put 'em on the list;
And they'll none of 'em be missed--they'll none of
'em be missed!

-- W. S. Gilbert



#99356 03/26/03 05:37 AM
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I'm not sure what your link was trying to say, Dr. Bill, and anyway it's based on USn Law. Osborn's Concise Law Dictionary says this:

nisi prius A trial at nisi prius was a trial by a jury before a single judge, either at the sittings held for that purpose in London and Middlesex, or at the assizes. Formerly all common law actions were tried at the bar, that is, before the full court, consisting of several judges; and, therefore, the writ for summoning the jury commanded the sheriff to bring the jurors from the county where the cause of action arose to the court at Westminster. But when the statute 13 Edw. 1 directed the justices of assize to try issues in the county where they arose, the sheriff was thenceforth commanded to bring the jurors to Westminster on a certain day, "unless before that day" (nisi prius) the justices of assize came into the county.

Bingley


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#99357 03/26/03 02:09 PM
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Do I have it right then that the "nisi prius nuicance, the judicial humorist" is a bushleague judge who makes jokes in court?

And I'll not all of us know what tÍte-a-tÍte means. And those who pronunce it teet=a-teet ought to be on KoKo's list.




#99358 03/31/03 11:15 AM
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Just catching up on things and found Ko-Ko's 'list song' three or four posts up above. My favourite 'on the list' target is:

"...the idiot who praises, with enthusiastic tone,
All centuries but this, and every country but his own..." - don't we all meet them!

Beneath it I saw a line that may often be misunderstood today:

"...the lady from the provinces, who dresses like a guy...", the reference here is to a meaning of 'guy' not often used now, at least not in the UK:

"A person of odd or grotesque appearance or dress." This is Gilbert indulging in the usual sneering of the cityfolk at out-of-towners' attempts to appear fashionable. Experience this still today in New York, Paris, London, Tokyo, Rome etc, etc!


#99359 04/01/03 07:40 PM
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Sorry for the delay, I just took my first trip to London! However, I am ever so delighted to sound like I know what I'm talking about! "Nisi prius" isn't really a word used very often, but it generally means a trial court, or a court of first resort. This is where facts are presented, as opposed to appellate courts, where the court will only review issues of law. In other words, when a lawsuit is commenced, it is at a court of nisi prius.

Dawn

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#99360 04/01/03 08:44 PM
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Dear Dawn: please say something about Kp-Ko's putting the nisi prius nuisance on his list.Why was it funny enough to be worth including? I found some information about it:
Nisi prius nuisance. In Gilbert's day the words "nisi prius" practically meant "legal".

"At the present day the judge who goes on circuit sits under three commissions: (1) The Commission of General Gaol delivery, in virtue of which he clears the gaol of all persons awaiting trial; (2) The Commission of Oyer and Terminer, in virtue of which he tried those criminal cases in which the grand jury have found a true bill; (3) The Commission of Assize, which is a survival of the old Commission empowering the judge to take the verdict of that special sort of jury called an Assize, which was summoned for trial of certain issues (vide supra), and to which, by Stat West II c 30 was annexed the power to hear other cases "at Nisi Prius". Before the "Nisi Prius" writ was invented, if the plaintiff had an action in Oxfordshire, he had to come up to London to try it, and bring his witnesses, the sheriff of the county being directed by a writ of "venire facias" to bring up an Oxfordshire jury; after the Statute empowered the judges of Assize to try other issues in the counties, the writ was altered, and the sheriff was directed to bring up twelve lawful men from Oxford to try the Oxfordshire case in London, unless before the date specified the justices tried the cause in Oxford and spared everybody the trouble of coming to London".


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