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#93739 - 01/30/03 03:19 AM disorders  
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magimaria Offline
journeyman
magimaria  Offline
journeyman

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Posts: 77
Well, I'm with Dr. Bill on his first statement, although I would have worded it a bit more delicately, perhaps. Entropy is far to intriguing of a measurement (I always thought of it as more of a process) to get abused so flagrantly here.

'the measure of the degree of disorder in a closed system'...hmmm maybe it does relate to Bush after all....

(oh, I know, I know, you don't all have to pm me and tell me not to go there...)


#93740 - 01/30/03 04:24 AM Re: entropy  
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Bingley Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Jakarta
In reply to:

not to put too fine a point on this, but we are talking about Bush..


But it wasn't Bush who said it, it was the Time writer. Or is Bush's idiosyncratic use of the language spreading?

Bingley



Bingley
#93741 - 01/30/03 12:07 PM Re: disorders  
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wsieber Offline
old hand
wsieber  Offline
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Posts: 1,027
Switzerland
Hi Magimaria,
I tend to side with you on this one. I have been using the notion of entropy (mostly for myself), well outside its thermodynamic application for a long time. One interesting definition of entropy stems from statistical thermodynamics: it is proportional to the (logarithm of the) number of distinguishable states which a system can reach. So if you divide the world just in "good" and "bad", the entropy is very low, compared with the wide variety of attitudes that an open mind can distinguish.


#93742 - 01/30/03 12:08 PM Re: entropy  
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Faldage Offline
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the Time writer

We read an AP article the other day regarding the oddly named Craig David having "successfully navigated his first hurdle" in his US tour.


#93743 - 01/30/03 01:03 PM Re: entropy  
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wwh Offline
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"the oddly named Craig David " The first shall be last, and the last shall be first?


#93744 - 01/30/03 01:19 PM Re: entropy  
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Bean Offline
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Bean  Offline
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successfully navigated his first hurdle

I have visions of a little boat steaming around a running track.


#93745 - 01/30/03 01:42 PM Re: entropy  
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wwh Offline
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Hurdles are the three foot by two foot blards sheep handles use to force a sheep to
change direction, to make them escaping the sheep dog driving them into enclosure.
Navigate is something done with a boat.
hurdle
n.
5ME hirdel < OE hyrdel < Gmc base *hurd3, wickerwork, hurdle, akin to hyrd, door, Frank *hurda, a pen, fold < IE base *kert3, to plait, twist together > L cratis (see CRATE), Gr kyrtos, bird cage6
1 [Chiefly Brit.] a portable frame made of interlaced twigs, etc., used as a temporary fence or enclosure
2 a kind of frame or sled on which prisoners in England were drawn through the streets to execution
3 any of a series of framelike barriers over which horses or runners must leap in a special race (the hurdles)
4 a difficulty to be overcome; obstacle
vt.
3dled, 3dling
1 to enclose or fence off with hurdles
2 to jump over (a barrier), as in a race
3 to overcome (an obstacle)
hur4dler
n.



#93746 - 01/30/03 01:55 PM Re: entropy  
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dxb Offline
Pooh-Bah
dxb  Offline
Pooh-Bah

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Posts: 1,692
UK
The thoughts of Flanders and Swann:

The First law of Thermodynamics.
Heat is work and work is heat
Heat is work and work is heat
Very Good.
The Second law of thermodynamics.
Heat cannot of itself pass from one body to a hotter body
Heat cannot of itself pass from one body to a hotter body
Heat won't pass from a cooler to a hotter
Heat won't pass from a cooler to a hotter
You can try it if you like but you'd far better not-a
You can try it if you like but you'd far better not-a
'Cos the cold in the cooler will get hotter as a rule-a
'Cos the cold in the cooler will get hotter as a rule-a
'Cos the hotter body's heat will pass to the cooler
'Cos the hotter body's heat will pass to the cooler
Heat is work and work is heat and work is heat and heat is work
Heat will pass by conduction and
Heat will pass by conduction and
Heat will pass by convection and
Heat will pass by convection and
Heat will pass by radiation
Heat will pass by radiation
And that's a physical law

Heat is work and work's a curse
And all the heat in the universe
Is gonna cool down,
'Cos it can't increase
Then there'll be no more work
And there'll be perfect peace
Really?
Yeah, that's entropy, Man.
And all because of the second law of thermodynamics which lays down:
That you can't pass heat from a cooler to a hotter
Try it if you like but you'd far better not-a
'Cos the cold in the cooler will get hotter as a rule-a
'Cos the hotter body's heat will pass to the cooler

Oh, you can't pass heat from a cooler to a hotter
Try it if you like but you'll only look a fool-a
'Cos the cold in the cooler will get hotter as a rule-a
And that's a physical law
Oh, I'm hot
That's because you've been working!
Oh, Beatles, nothing!
That's the first and second laws of thermodynamics.



#93747 - 01/30/03 02:07 PM Re: entropy  
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wwh Offline
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Dear dxb: Thermodynamics made comprehensible. We should send it to President Bush.
It might be of help to him.


#93748 - 01/30/03 04:30 PM Re: entropy  
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milum Offline
old hand
milum  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
Birmingham, Alabama
Bush seems blindsided by the entropy of Annan's U.N."
What in hell does that mean?


entropy: philosophy The inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society. (You know like K-mart, or our legal system, or the increasingly inept UN).

Yes I agree Bill, the reporter's poor sentence construction was an obtuse excuse for clever rhetoric, but not because of his use of "entropy". I thought that apt. But President Bush is much too wise and too painfully aware of the entropic qualities of the self-intrest assemblies that make up the United Nations to be blindsided by their lack of prompt and courageous action.
A person is "blindsided" by a bus, or a shovel, not by the predictable actions of a namby-pamby UN.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Post Edit: My apologies Bill, I overlooked your post that would have (if I had read it) mollified mine.

I was talking about a lousy mixed metaphor. The President didn't get blindsided by
UN membership's disorganization, he was inadequately briefed by his advisors as to
how much UN support he could expect.
~ wwh

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