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Indeed, let us get our "awrights" aright.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Here's a PC post from an intriguing perspective I found in the original 2000 thread, from Brandon, a board contributor we haven't seen much of late:
>Of couse many other languages (eg Spanish, French) have many more male and females<
In my language of choice (American Sign Language), masculine and feminine pronouns and identifiers do not exist as they do in most spoken languages. People and objects are defined and introduced spatially, not "sexually." If it does contribute to a broader acceptance of men-and-women-on-equal-footing, that contribution may be negated by the fact that most description is visually-based and therefore readily malleable to personal bias.
It goes back to the covert issue; words are not necessary for ill will.
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old hand
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I believe tsuwm is well aware of this, honey, as I guess are most of his interlocutors.
well, I wondered....! but wasn't entirely clear....Anyway, was glad for a chance to post something about "niggardly" (which is a great word!)....
sorry I misconstrued, tswum!
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Just for future reference, MG, the chances of tsuwm not having a complete grasp on any word he uses are about the same as Bill Clinton's chances of becoming President of the US again. The real problem is that tsuwm has never been willing to abide by the international law which forbids USns to use irony. So, somoetimes, the rest of us may mistake his breach of this protocol for an actual misunderstanding. I know, 'cos it's happened to me.
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veteran
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I think to the extent that PC is what it claims to be - just an attempt to be polite - that it's fine. My problem is that it is - in reality - so much more than what it claims to be. It goes beyond, "I believe that my language causes harm and I will attempt to use other words in other ways," to "I think *YOUR* language causes harm and *YOU* should change it! Failure to do so marks you as homophobic or racist at worst and insensitive at best."
It seems clear to me that many who are anti-pc have misanalyzed the problem and have generically claimed that every idea with which they disagree is somehow pc. But this mistaken analysis doesn't mean that pc is non-existent or that it is entirely innocuous. And I have to say that it is very irritating to me that anti-PCers are always doing this precisely because it does detract from the real flaws (as I perceive them).
Method of PC:
PC as it is practiced is an attempt to associate people with beliefs they do not hold, ideas they have not expressed, and actions they have not performed. The crux is that ignorance is considered the ultimate evil in our society and naivete the ultimate display of mental and moral weakness. If I can show that you don't know some little bit of information, then you, of course, are not so well-informed and are therefore ignorant. What you say is therefore perpetuating ignorance. Since I know more than you (you are obviously ignorant), I am *right* and you are *WRONG* and everything you say can be safely ignored. If I am right (and just), then anything I say is justified and anything you say is not.
The irony of this situation is that PC is a left-wing embodiment of many qualities its adherents claim to despise on the right. (Yes, imo, the right has their own version of PC with all of the essential components.)
Aside:
True story. My wife always talks about "orinentals." "Orinental" this and "orinental" that. I would not presume to correct her on this point, but I did finally say to her, "Honey, I'm not being critical and I'm not asking you to change your speech, but did you know that many people say that applying the word 'oriental' to people is racist or at least insensitive." (A slight diversion to explain the meaning of those terms.) She immediately responds "Who say dat? Dat stupid!" In fact, I know many, many asians and they all but one use the term 'oriental' to describe people. The one fellow, however, who does not is rabidly opposed to this usage. Extremely vocal about it. (OTOH, I know another fellow is equally insistent that he be refered to as an oriental and nothing else. This game is called "Kobayashi Maru.") I think that in the main the guys who are offended by this are the ones who were told that they ought to be offended.
Similar kinda thing with the the terms "African American" vs "black." I know lots of blacks who refer to simply "blacks" or "black americans" or "black women" and then 10 minutes later will make a big show of refering to "African Americans" if it involves correcting the use by someone who is white. "Blacks" is a convenient shortening that blacks themselves use.
My least favorite of these shibboleths is "people of color" to refer to non-whites - as if white were not a color. This is an attempt to define a group of people without reference to the group to which they are defined. "See, we need to think of ourselves in our own right and not as how we are related to that 'other group'." This is an archetype of linguistic dishonestly.
My intent:
I guess my main purpose is the rehabilitation of honest ignorance, and the elimination of the pretense that one is 'merely being polite' or 'merely educating' by correcting the diction and grammar of other people (usually done in the most condescending and nasty way imaginable since it's not 'really' about 'educating' people as they call it, but about scoring points).
I suppose after all of this it is unnecessary for me to state my ignorant and insensitive opinion on the changing of works of art. I don't have a problem with an artist changing his own works for whatever reason she wants to do it. I do not think it is good or wise or even particularly 'sensitive' to go back and scrub the classics so they conform to modern sensibilities. Mark Twain is fine the way he is written. At the very least, those who recast his works should be honest enough to say that their own 'version' is a derivation of the original work. While they're at it, they need to go look up those paintings of little boys by Picasso in the National Gallery and paint some clothes on them. Pederastic bastard shouldn't have done that in the first place and we need to ensure an environment where "our" children feel safe, to boot.
k
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There would be no need for Political Correctness if we all tried to be gentlemen, as defined by Cardinal Newman long ago. The most important characteristic of a gentleman is that he genuinely tries to avoid needlessly inflicting pain. Below is URL to the essay by Cardinal Newman: http://65.107.211.206/vn/victor10.html
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intra-ethnic PC
Your pointing out the use of "oriental' within the Asian community, gleaned from first-hand experience, FF, is an interesting illustration that, in some ways, folks are applying the PC factor to certain situations or sayings because it is now "the thing to do." Take the recent flap over Antonio Banderas appearing as Pancho Villa in his new movie. Many Mexicans say they are outraged that a continental Spaniard was allowed to depict a Mexican historical figure on screen, that there are plenty of Mexican actors who could have done the part. But he's an actor, this is theatre...actors create an amalgam of characters of many backgrounds...this is their art. If appropriate ethnic casting is now supposed to be the rule, then Martin Sheen couldn't have done Robert E. Lee in Gettysburg, Sir Laurence Olivier couldn't have done many of his characters, including the Jewish Nazi-hunter in The Boys From Brazil. This is the kind of stuff that draws a cynical eye of ridicule to PC, and overshadows some of its initial and appropriate intentions, intentions now obscured in a rush to judge, a rush to point, a rush to complain, it now seems in many cases, just for the sake of complaining.
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Carpal Tunnel
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They ALL have been native Americans. It's even required in the Constitution.
The use of the term Native American to decribe those who are descended from root stocks that were indiginous to North and Central America prior to 1492 is, to me, anathema. There's not a damned thing wrong with calling those people Indians or Amerinds or aboriginal Americans, but reserving to them the phrase native American takes away MY birthright.
Along those lines, I learned years ago that calling an Amerind and apple is akin to use of the n-word. It refers pejoratively to an aboriginal American descendant who is considered by his or her relatives to be red on the outside but white on the inside.
TEd
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Native American
Yes, TEd, I too, am not completely comfortable with the term Native American, and, as you may have seen over my many postings on this board, I usually use Amerindian or Aboriginal American, because I think anyone who is born in the USA is a Native American. However, for the observation I made, I thought Native American was the best choice for clarity's sake on an international board. But the nomenclature wasn't the point of that particular post. I still think it will be poetic justice when we have our first descendent from the original inhabitants of these states as president (choose any descriptive you want).
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>There's not a damned thing wrong with calling those people Indians
Actually there is - they're not. Last time I looked, India was a hell of a long way from The Americas, historic misappellations notwithstanding.
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