|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1
stranger
|
OP
stranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1 |
Downhill is an interesting metaphor. It can be positive or negative depending on its use. “We’ve reached the crest of the pass, boys, it’s all downhill from here.” Since the accident, she’s wasting away. I’m afraid it’s all downhill from here.” I can use a quote or phrase that refers to this phenomenon. Any thoughts?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
I've heard it used both ways, to mean things are going to keep on getting better, and
also just the opposite, meaning things are going to keep on getting worse.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
The phrases from here on up it's all downhill and from here on down it's all uphill were used upon occasion in Pogo.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
I guess it's quite hard to hit something that oscillates vertically ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Looks like no one has an answer yet to your question, Trusty, but don't give up.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555 |
"We've reached the crest of the pass, boys, its all downhill from here"
Rusty, the usage of the word downhill in that particular sentence seems pretty literal, not figurative. The speaker is describing the downhill nature of the slope, (or the down slope of the hill!) more like an adverb. Doesnt sound like a metaphor, does it?
Still thinking abt the phenomenon though!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
If there isn't a name for it, there should be - my reading is as serendipitous as my typos: for instance, builders vans that advertise the firm as shopfitters I invariably read as "shoplifters." 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819 |
I would say that the phrase is ambiguous if taken out of context, since each expression (either downhill or uphill) can have one of two opposite meanings.
How about the phenomenon when a single phenomenon can be described using one of two phrases that semantically sound like opposites? For example, burn up and burn down.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
I've got the T shirt:
Over What Hill?
Where?
When?
I Don't Remember Any Hill!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555 |
Crest of the pass...and then....downhill
Faldage,....allusion to mountainous pass, I think. Might there be another?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555 |
We might have something here Trusty! Contranym!!?? Was just told of the existence of such a word. The dictionary in my office does not list it. The carpals will surely know! Is this the word/phenomenon that u were looking for. Does not however apply only to metaphors; applies to all such contrary words  .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>The carpals will surely know!
this is indeed a major, multiple-yart! if you're interested, search for contranym, antagonym, enantiodromic...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Not even Anita Hill vs Clarence Thomas?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
That was a downer.  Get down! Down of the goose... You can always go...downtown! (Petula Clark) Down and out. Calm down! Like a bridge over troubled waters, I will lay me down. (Simon and Garfunkel)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Just for the fun of it, I pulled up Atomica on enantiodromic, and found the most interesting essay! http://www.well.com/~demarini/edison.htmlHe starts off by talking about Edison and the light bulb, and goes on into the invention of the phonograph. I'll put a couple of quotes: It is often the case that a new medium's first major flaw or contradiction is destined to become its dominant metaphor. The disembodying upside-downness of Della Porta's camera obscura, the shadows created by light falling on Niepce's photographic emulsion producing a "negative" image, the montage necessitated by the frailty and shortness of early celluloid film - these have become the mechanophors which convey the richness and complexity of our experience. ... Enantiodromic reversal at the atomic level can be used to symbolize opposing primal forces and may serve to mythicize otherwise commonplace occurrences. If you go to this site and click Back *, you'll get a page that includes this guy's (Paul DeMarinis) bio. Very interesting stuff. *Uh-oh--when I tested my link, it didn't give a Back button, so here's the link to the bio. page: http://www.well.com/~demarini/. If you go here to find the piece, click on Writings, then on the title which is: "Essay in Lieu of a Sonata (The Edison Effect)".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555 |
Thanks Trusty, for the poser. Had lots of fun with it. U still havent said that this is what u were looking for, though.
Ran a check on Contranyms and the search threw up some lovely stuff. Apparently, its not a word thats as yet entered into the dictionaries, but is in use.
Usage traced back to (as far as I could go, might be earlier): David Grambs, 1984, Words about Words.
Definition: Words that are their own antonyms/ a word that has two opposing meanings. Commonest example is 'Cleave' : break apart or split, as also, stick fast or adhere.
Types:
1.Homonymic or Homographic contranyms (same spelling) eg. Cleave
2. One site lists another variety; Homophonic contranyms (different spellings, same pronunciation). Am not so convinced however. Seemed like some were just improper pronunciations. Oh dear! fear am opening the flood gates here! Check the following links for more examples. http://rec-puzzles.org/new/sol.pl/language/english/meaning/synonyms/contranym
http://members.cox.net/errantjuggler/thingsenglish/homophones/
'Homophones'- words that are pronounced the same, but differ in meaning, origin and spelling. eg. reed/read
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
harumph! if you'd do your search locally, you'd see that we discussed 'cleave' as being two separate and distinct words (homonyms) that happen to have opposing definitions and is not a contronym (by Anu's own definition, "a word that generates two opposite meanings."
-joe birdseed and all the other mincers
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555 |
why was i harrumphed at!? Did look at the AWAD archives and quote below from guest wordsmith of that week - Richard Lederer. [confused]
contronym (KAHN-troh-NIM) noun
A word that generates two opposite meanings. More popularly, they are
known as Janus-faced words because the Greek god Janus had two faces
that looked in opposite directions.
"The moon is VISIBLE tonight."
"The lights in the old house are always INVISIBLE."
Although the two capitalized words are opposite in meaning, both can
be replaced by the same word -- out. When the moon or sun or stars are
out, they are visible. When the lights are out, they are invisible.
Thus, out is a contronym.
Other examples:
cleave: separate; adhere firmly.
a. A strong blow will cleave a plank in two.
b. Bits of metal cleave to a magnet.
oversight: careful supervision; neglect.
a. The foreman was responsible for the oversight of the project.
b. The foreman's oversight ruined the success of the project.
Source: AWAD archives, 1201
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Richard Lederer
Seems like we accosted him on this cleave/cleave thang and he recanted. At least in private
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555 |
Seems like we accosted him on this cleave/cleave thang and he recanted. At least in private
Why was that Faldage? Is it because, when used to mean 'adhering to or sticking to', the usage is most commonly followed by the prep 'to' as in 'cleave to' and almost never, simply, cleave. Whilst the opposing meaning of 'breaking apart' is almost always, stand alone 'cleave'.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555 |
Scrumptious!!! Thanks very much, Faldage Have a feeling that you might have visited this site before, but if u havent, pls do. You might like it. http://www.geocities.com/wordwulf/niw_englisc.htm
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Scrumptious!!!
Íh þænke þé, maahey. Íh hæfe nefer ben þer.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 180
member
|
|
member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 180 |
http://www.geocities.com/wordwulf/niw_englisc.htm
I couldn't resist looking at this but at least had the self-discipline to save the URL so I can play with it at home instead of work. I suspect it's something I should show my daughter who questions the designation of Germanic for English. She can see the Latinate influence and refuses to understand the term Germanic isn't a subjective description of current appearance but objective historical fact. Lineage. Geschlecht, maybe.
Actually I think it's a tribute to her patience and understanding that she listens to me go on about this at all. Of course, if you create your own humans from scratch you're likely to have some influence on the results.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555 |
Am glad u liked, Faldage Tried to say that in Niw Englisc, but couldnt manage it!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Tried to say that in Niw Englisc, but couldnt manage it!It's probably because of your annoying use of 'u' for 'you', Dr Maahey.  Harrumph® 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
... Of course, if you create your own humans from scratch you're likely to have some influence on the results.
Whether you like it or not, eh? [where's that emoticon for "ducking, big-time"?]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
couldnt manage it
The two main things I find lacking are a conjugation of the verb to be and a Modern English to Niw Englisc wórdbók.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555 |
Both the 'you' and the 'h' word  duly acknowledged and again, both accepted as well deserved. Harrumph away, Anna!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Both the 'you' and the 'h' word
I think you'll find, maahey, that on this highly respected international linguistics forum we are very decorous; we respeck parper spelling and we acknowledge © and ®. We'll let you off with a warning this time because of your neophyte status but in the future, Harrumph®!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
highly respected international linguistics forum we are very decorous;
dood, that's like so kewl!
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742 |
I've been meaning ask, ramasseur - how good is the hypothesising at that Niw Englisc site? The only thing I know about the original cversion is that some of my ancestors may have spoken it, so I am keen to hear an expert assessment of the merits of this revision.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
how good is the hypothesising at that Niw Englisc site?
Haven't had a chance to give it a good lookover, nor thought about all the ramifications of some of their choices. It acknowledges the Great Vowel Shift and retains the Englisc third person plural pronouns, eschewing the Danish ones that snuck in during the Danelaw. Whether the loss of grammatical gender is valid I don't know. I would suspect that it was also involved in the changes that went on as a result of the Danish influence. The choice of the as the invariant definite article is arbitrary and as good as any other, I suppose. Haven't studied the word choices in great depth. I'm a little bothered by their decision to retain the n in the indefinite article regardless of the start of the following word. Seems its assimilation would have occurred without any outside influences.
I guess, all in all, I'd give it mixed reviews.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,351
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
1 members (A C Bowden),
642
guests, and
1
robot. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
