|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,542 Likes: 1
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,542 Likes: 1 |
It's woefully easy to find by googling, but without resorting to that
how many of us know what is the relevance of
Mikazaru, Mizaru, and Mazaru?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
The names looked Japanese, but I never heard them before, and had to search.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
never heard them before, in my recollection, but I have an idea. it'll be fun to see if I figured it out! 
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Good grief, wofa, how do you know these things?? I sure had to LIU, and was flabbergasted. I see now what you mean, and you can hear it from me: I intend to speak about this to a whole lot of people.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Well, since Jackie looked 'em up, I did, too.
Why didn't you list 'em:
Mizaru, Mikazaru, and Mazaru
???
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819 |
Don't listen to those who have looked it up; don't say if you know; and better yet, don't look it up at all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692 |
What does that leave?
ed: Forget that question - I asked it without thinking first. I don't want to throw a wrench into the works.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,542 Likes: 1
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,542 Likes: 1 |
Good grief, wofa, how do you know these things??
'Tain't so much how I know them, Jackie, but when I come across them I am intrigued, and so they stick.
This one came from the title of a lecture (the speaker was clearly trying to be provocative) and really had little to do with the subject. Said speaker related that the three monkeys are depicted carved, actually on the elaborate tomb of a renowned Shogun (he showed a picture). They are the guardians, and their function is to protect the kingdom. The meaning - "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" - has changed over time, having starting as "permit no evil." If they saw or heard anything out of line they were to charge out and extirpate same, a far cry indeed from our present "pretend you don't notice" interpretation.
He also indicated that the names were actually a play on words (really ideograms) all based on the ideogram we would call "-zaru" which means monkey. The attributes (see no, hear no, etc.) actually have slightly different -zaru names, which unfortunately I didn't record.
BTW - are there many words like 'tain't, with two apostrophes ?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
... and I especially liked the hints left in posts from responders. Finally I was able to figure it out my own self.
Meanwhile: BTW - are there many words like 'tain't, with two apostrophes ?
I'm fond of double contractions using y'all: y'all're, y'all'll, etc. Sort of the same branch of the language as 'tain't, i'n't it?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
" 'tain't" you say?
Better than " 'tisn't."
But we're word hounds, doggone it!
Two apostrophes sounds like not much of a challenge.
Let's go for three!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Y'all'll've seen this one before.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Y'all'll've seen this one before.L'L'O'L'!! 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742 |
>Two apostrophes sounds like not much of a challenge.
Let's go for three!!!
Amateurs! Samoan has the apostrophe as an integral part of its alphabet, three in a word would be a very mediocre effort by Samoan standards. Thank you. fa'afetai
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Samoan
Yeah! Let's compare apples and hand grenades!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742 |
Samoan
Yeah! Let's compare apples and hand grenades!
OK.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Pomegranates would be easier to compare to hand grenades. Why don't we begin with pomegrantes and maybe work up to apples--or down to, as the case may be.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
OK, so if Samoan is handgrenades, what language shall we use to be the pomegranates?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742 |
>OK, so if Samoan is handgrenades, what language shall we use to be the pomegranates?
For alliterative reasons, I like anything palagi, but English oder Deutsch would seem especially apt, being the languages of all powres to have exercised colonial overlordship in Samoa. Tofa.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
English oder Deutsch
No, no, no! English is the apples and Deutsch doesn't use apostrophes at all that I can remember. No, it's gotta be something totally else.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742 |
> No, it's gotta be something totally else.
Nihon? They do quite a bit of business in that part of the world these days.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094 |
Deutsch doesn't use apostrophes at all that I can remember.
Maybe a little with slang, but those Deutchers generally just squish their contractions together.
Darfste drüber geh'n?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Here's what my source had to say, wofa: The "three wise monkeys" or three mystical apes ("sambiki saru") are the attendants of Saruta Hiko no Mikoto or Koshin, the God of the Roads. They are (1) Mizaru, covering his eyes, who sees no evil; (2) Mikazaru, covering his ears, who hears no evil; and (3) Mazaru, covering his mouth, who speaks no evil. The source that popularized this pictorial maxim is a carving over a door of the Sacred Stable at the famous temple in Nikko, Japan (carved in the 17th Century). However, the maxim probably originally came with Buddism from India via China in the 8th Century (associated with Vadjra who taught that if we do not hear, see or speak evil, then we will be spared evil). The “fourth” mystical ape is simply a corrupt invention of the tourist trade and may be seen occasionally in humorous netsuke as “know no evil” (“Iwazaru”) or “do no evil” (“Shizaru”). http://www.worldcollectorsnet.com/netsuke/messages/462.html I was very surprised by finding this; I've heard that expression all my life, and it never once occurred to me that these creatures might have names.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Yeah, I finally figured out that deutsch does use apostophes. but not to the extent that English does. No, we need a whole nother candidate for the hand grenade (or is it the apples, I'm lost).
Edit: 12/22
No, it's for the pomegranates we're looking for the nother candidate.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,331
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
|
