Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
#85790 11/11/02 12:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Jackie Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Bach's compositions do seem to work well in almost any instrumentation.
Ah, but would the tortoise agree? <eg>
Oh, now I remember what I wanted to put in my last post (I was doing about 6 things at once, and got distracted.) Are there people who, like eatoin and his backwards alphabet, see written music as mathematical patterns? Or even visual patterns? By the latter, I mean reasonably complicated compositions--even I could see that one line of notes written down an octave and then back up would form a V.



#85791 11/11/02 01:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
A
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
A
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
I think that someone could appreciate the abstract beauty of Bach's works by looking at the sheet music (if they understood what they were seeing) or some other representation of the score, such as on the grooves of a disc (presumably you mean a vinyl LP), but I think if that was all they appreciated they would be missing the complete experience.

Who was it that said "Mathematics is music for the mind, and music is mathematics for the soul"?


#85792 11/11/02 01:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027
I appreciate the symmetry, and therein lies the beauty
Symmetry is certainly an feature that transcends the subjectivity of spontaneously perceived Beauty. David Hume explained this by the rarity of naturally occurring perfect symmetry. But there must be more to it: In my experience, really captivating beauty arises from symmetry (including periodicity) which is just slightly broken.


#85793 11/11/02 08:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,510
Likes: 1
W
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,510
Likes: 1
I think that someone could appreciate the abstract beauty of Bach's works by looking at the sheet music

When Hofstadter wrote about the Tortoise and the Disk he was being tongue-in-cheek. But he also did a column in Metamagical Themas, during the couple of years he took over for Martin Gardner in Scientific American, in which he stressed the visual beauty of Chopin piano scores, distinct from their musical charm. And I think he meant it that time.


#85794 11/11/02 09:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Jackie Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
if that was all they appreciated they would be missing the complete experience.
Thanks, Alex--that's something else I forgot to put. Now:
guess what, guess what, you-all? Look at what I found just this afternoon, in Anu's book! (p. 101)
J. S. Bach's Crab Canon is an example of cancrine music. It can be read--and played--from start to finish or from finish to start. Put the music sheet upside down? No problem! You can still play it and it will sound the same. You can see this curious piece of music for yourself on the web. Just go to:
http://www.btinternet.com/~derek.hasted/takeaway/crab.html




#85795 11/11/02 09:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
that's in G, E, & B, too.

symmetry can be a component of beauty. I would agree with wsieber that a subtle non-symmetry can be what makes the difference. for me, beauty arises out of things being experience-able on several levels, all with a proportion and sense of structure that speaks to those different levels.

now if someone can tell me what the hell that means I would really appreciate it!





formerly known as etaoin...
#85796 11/12/02 11:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
A
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
A
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
In reply to:

In my experience, really captivating beauty arises from symmetry (including periodicity) which is just slightly broken.


Similarly, to me the most beautiful tunes combine harmony and dissonance. For example, at times the note in the melody is in harmony with the underlying bass or chords, and at other times is off a little, like a D note played over a C major chord. (Not sure if I explained that properly...oh well.)


#85797 11/12/02 01:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,510
Likes: 1
W
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,510
Likes: 1
...the most beautiful tunes combine harmony and dissonance

Another (related) set of attributes is Tension and Resolution. They are generally easy to spot if you're looking at that dimension, and when well realized the outcome is exquisite.


#85798 11/12/02 06:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Bach's compositions do seem to work well in almost any instrumentation.

I believe this is because he was a composer/performer on pianoforte, not to mention his "big ears".

...and at other times is off a little, like a D note played over a C major chord.

This sound is so "key centered" (to me) that it is not at all "off" [crossthreading], but I know what you meant!


#85799 11/12/02 07:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
A
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
A
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Well it's certainly true that you can get a lot more dissonant than a D 9th chord.


Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,283
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 444 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,510
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5