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Thanks for starting a very interesting thread, b/a. For what it's worth, I (see how boldly I say that!) don't know the names of the leaders of France, Germany, China and Afghanistan (and I can't spell the name of the leader of Russia, so how can I expect anyone to believe me when I say I know it?!). And I'm 35. It's interesting to me, how people judge other people for what those others do and don't know. I remember going out with a fellow who was extremely rude to me on more than one occasion, because I didn't know to whom he was referring when he talked about different sports figures. I didn't make fun of him when he didn't know to whom I was referring when I talked about different Shakespearean actors. I guess it all depends on what's most important to each individual. It's been pointed out here that a lot of teenagers are keen on social things: boy-meets-girl kinda things, or clothes, image, music, etc. There's actually a lot to be said for this kind of limited attitude: these people will never go out and oppress other countries, for example!  It's kinda like a return to village values: your focus is on the immediate. You may know everything your neighbours are doing, but nothing about what's going on in the next village. That being said, I don't have a lot of respect for people who have next to no general knowledge. I myself prefer to know less simply because I can't do anything about the horrible things that are going on in the world, and yet I get disproportionately upset (disproportionately, given that I can't do anything!). So - I prefer to be an ostrich about some things. On the other hand, I am always fascinated to learn how things have been and how they fit in with how things are now - what has led to what - evolutions in thought, for example, or in social trends, etc. (When I was in the UK this summer I went to the Museum of Costume in Bath - amazing stuff there!) So perhaps some of us grow up and follow world events closely, and some of us grow up and focus closely on personal development instead, and some of us grow up and manage to juggle the two. No one way is better than either of the others. I'm the middle kind: I'm very introspective and have been told I think too much, BUT I think that's partly what allows me to, for the most part, be very careful and mindful with other human beings, care for others, empathise and sympathise very strongly, reach out, understand, love and accept. For me, this is a better kind of human being to be than one who knows all the capitals of all the major powers. I'd rather know a little about a lot of things, than a lot about a few things (eg, a lot about what's going on in the world, but not so much about how to interact with the people with whom I come in contact daily, or about the myriad niches of interest there are in the world - *such as* the art of bonsai, different types of yoga, Scottish tartans, what some of the bones and muscles in the body are called and how they work with each other, how to frame up an excellent shot with a camera, how to parse a sentence, how to pare the toenails of the elderly, how lions hunt in the Serengeti, how octopii move, how to write a letter of condolence, how to make fettucini carbonara, how to read aloud to a child, etc etc etc)..... There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy!
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Joined: Jan 2001
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in general Nobel prise winners in physics are men.
While I can't argue with that I would be careful about saying why. In general the people who have done physics for the last hundred years have been men - because it wasn't acceptable for women to do physics. (When you have a society which discourage intellectualism in women, it is a bit of an uphill battle!) A lot of the Nobel Prizes awarded are for groundbreaking work done 20-30 years ago, when there were almost no women at all in physics. I think that the numbers will begin to even out as more girls are encouraged to study science. This number is still small, though.
Since you enjoy statistics, the small sample of physics departments I've been a member of won't impress you, but have a look at the numbers anyways, as a small sampling of the state of physics education in Canada.
University of Manitoba - year 2000: 21 professors, out of those, a single woman. (Interestingly, two more have been hired since I left, bringing the numbers up a bit. There are young women out there who have yet to make their mark!)
A friend's graduating class, year 1994, B Sc in physics, a class of 4: 1 woman.
My graduating class, year 1998, Bachelor of Science in Phyiscs, a class of 8: 2 women
Memorial University of Newfoundland - year 2002 - 21 professors, out of those, 3 women.
Our grad students right now: about 20, of which about 5 are women (these numbers are harder to pin down since I don't know all the people in the department)
So you see, about 25% of new physics graduates are women, with these rough statistics. The "old guard" was closer to 10%. So in 20-30 years, when these women have had a chance to make groundbreaking discoveries, whose full impact on their fields will be well-known, then you will see about 25% of Nobel Prize winners will be women!
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
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Here's a website for anybody who wants to look up heads of state. You can click on a country and the heads of state will appear. This site appears to be updated frequently: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/chiefs/
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear modestgoddess: May I Put in that the name of Russia's leader is very simple?
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 475
addict
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addict
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Well, I dropped out of school proper at around fourteen and went very infrequently from about twelve. I've spent a lot of the intervening years slumming around festivals and squat parties generally having a bit of a laugh. I've worked in kitchens and fancy dress shops and some fast food places. Pretty much your classic high school failure, I am probably that terrible influence you warn your children about. However, I am interested in current affairs, have read the papers religously since I was about ten, get through as many books as I can afford or can borrow, go to lectures and the theatre whenever I can afford to and know all the cast and storylines of Friends. Many of the no-good dropouts I know are similarly motivated to constantly self-educate though I would never describe them as intellectual. I think that it is possibly because I have not been herded into a building five days a week to be force fed information so I can regurgitate it once a year to pass some arbitrary standard of intelligence ,( take a breath) I have never had the natural human desire to learn crushed out of me by some institutionalised ideal of good and bad knowledge. I make no distinction between Friends and Shakespeare, it's all good, it's all valid as culture and it's interesting because it's different to whats in my head. I may enjoy Othello more than a three hour Friends omnibus on most days but what I relish is the choice. I am meandering towards a point eventually but I've got to go now, Eastenders is on.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 261
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 261 |
I'm not disputing my school friends' intelligence, as they are all very clever and good at a wide variety of things, but I just think that it is important to know at least a bit about current affairs, as I feel it is possible to change things in the world if only people knew how to go about it. I feel it's this apathy that's allowing, if not fuelling at least some of the problems in this world. So yes, I suppose people don't need to have read the works of Shakespeare or have heard of Beowulf to make a difference, (though it would be nice if these works were remembered) however, if nobody cared about what's going on now beyond the marital status of their next door neighbour or the latest antics of a soap star, an awful lot of nasty people will start to gain power and a lot of mistakes will be made, and by the time the apathetics (?) realise this, it may be doubly difficult, if not too late, to put things right again. Oh yeah, I do like Friends and stuff like that too. Isn't it Beowulf (belligerentyouth) How did I spell- Oh, heh heh... Oops! 
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veteran
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Back in engineering school there was this really tall, extremely pretty girl who was making straight As. (During this time, the numbers of men and women who signed up were comparable, but most of the women dropped out before finishing the program.) But this girl made it. Really attractive. Extremely sweet, too. One day some fellows are talking politics and she says, "Reagan ... he's a republican, right?" (This was back when he was running for his first term.) I thought maybe this was just another case of the pretty girl pretending to be stupid, but I think she was serious. (I'm not sure what I find more irritating: feigned stupidity or the genuine article.)
Problem is a lot of people have an overblown sense of the importance of what they know. I was once accused by a neighbor of lacking "common sense" because I didn't know that a person could drink 12 oz of wood alcohol with no ill effects. I need to send a nasty letter to my old teachers concerning this oversight in my education. OTOH, as I've ranted on numerous occasions, I don't believe common sense exists, or if it does exist, I don't think it's desirable. What is wanted is not common sense, but good sense, and the vast preponderance of my life's experiences have inured me to the inescapable conclusion that insofar as sense is common, it is seldom very good, and insofar as it it good, it is seldom very common.
Not that I entirely disagree with you, though. I guess there's some basic knowledge we ought all to have. But what? And who decides? And by what criteria? Whenever I pick up these books that purport to contain universally applicable knowledge, I inevitably discover I'm a lot stupider than I usually feel. (I know all the leaders you mention, and I've read Beowulf. But I only 'know' a trivial bit about Paradise Lost - it being far down on my list - and I'm sure I couldn't have a conversation about it.) This completely ignores all the crap that I've just plain forgotten over the years (I have a really bad memory and my friends and family even make fun of me - but it's not all that funny really - not to me).
Nor can I claim to compensate with an encyclopedic knowledge of popular culture. I'm familiar with some things and not with others. I've made a point of actually watching Howard Stern and Jerry Springer and Oprah Winfrey, so at least I know who the heck people are talking about. I also watched Rush Limbaugh (not a whole show, but at least I know what he looks like). I've never watched a whole episode of Seinfeld or Friends, but I've seen a lot of Star Trek and Simpsons. I don't have any idea who O'Reilly is but I know who Gerry Spence and Alan Dershowitz are, and I would recognize Ann Coulter's face.
k
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Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear FF: I assure you, anybody who drinks twelve ounces of wood alcohol is almost
certain to become permanently blind.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 261
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 261 |
I suppose there's such a high emphsis on getting grades and cramming in knowledge for exams now that many people have lost a sense of seeing the bigger picture. We live in a society that is so competitive that sometimes people's priorities become all mixed up. I'm doing my GCSEs (big exam at the end of the secondary school here in the UK) right now and the pressure is really very high, and I guess that as there isn't a test on current affairs, people try to push it to the back of their minds. (After these GCSEs, which I'm in the second year of, there will be another two years of examination for A and AS levels - just thinking about it makes the mind boggle!) EDIT: On the other hand, people do seem to have enough time to dig up the dirt on celebrities etc... 
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear bonzaialsatian: You wouldn't have to join the ratrace if you were willing to have standard
of living your great-grandfather had. When you think about that, it ought put wings on your
feet.
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