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old hand
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old hand
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So right you really are, wofahulicodoc. Say, while I got you on the phone, can you get me in touch with that committee that decides what is "correct" and what is "ain't". They oughta share updates of their rules with the people that are doing most of the speaking. 
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,542 Likes: 1
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,542 Likes: 1 |
I seem to recall a game described some years back in Scientific American (Mathematical Games Dep't) in which one of the possible courses of action was to change one or more rules...Is this Art imitating Life or the other way 'round?
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Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
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okay, I'm going to try and copy this one more time for the benefit of those who ignored or missed the point the first time:
and ... 10. Connecting two verbs the latter of which would logically be in the infinitive, esp. after go, come, send, try; familiarly and dialectally after various others.
to me this means that statements such as:
I'm going to come and see you tomorrow.
I'm going to try and do that in the morning.
could be read (in the mind's eye) as:
I'm going to come (and) to see you tomorrow.
I'm going to try (and) to do that in the morning.
perhaps "try and" results from a conflation of usages.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
perhaps "try and" results from a conflation of usages.
Almost certainly!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
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ok. All we could do is try, and see if someone would come and explain.without the comma you're saying that you want someone to come and explain; with the comma, you're going to try something, and then, if that doesn't work, see if someone can come and explain. try and becomes a throw-away without the comma. I think... 
formerly known as etaoin...
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
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So, in the interests of consistency, do all you who so scrupulously try to avoid "try and" exercise no less diligence in avoiding the equally "incorrect" examples quoted by tsuwm?
The examples were go, come, send, try.
I haven't seen the alternatives much at all. Apparently, some will say, "Are you going to go and watch the game?", "I will come and see you later.", and "I will send and ??? (I can't even imagine this construction - a little help, somebody?), in addition to the more-familiar "I will try and get the work done."
I have a problem with all of these constructions, when not used precisely. I can see meaning "I will go and I will watch the game" rather than "I will go to watch the game", but 99.42 percent of the time, or more, people using the "try and" construction mean "try to." After all, if one accomplishes the goal (I have gotten the work done), whether or not one was trying (~ attempting) to get the work done becomes irrelevant in most contexts. The trying part becomes relevant only when the task is still in the future and its accomplishment uncertain, or if the task failed but the effort and attitude devoted to it is worth acknowledging. Don't cha think?
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661 |
On top of all the above...
1671 Milton P.R. i. 224 At least to try and teach the erring soul.
... rings of a different 'try'.
'Testing' and 'enduring' are on different *ends of the action.
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old hand
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old hand
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Gee everyone, Moses in the form of tsuwm has come down from the mountain twice with tablets etched by the URL gods with pronouncements on this matter. Forsooth, are we mere mortals of the sodden earth willing to face the wrath of tsuwm on his next descent? -  I think not. ____________ 
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Joined: Apr 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
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milos, I keep asking you to "come up and see us some time", but I guess your head is somewhere else.
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old hand
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old hand
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Sometimes I question the use of "try to" when "try and" would do quite well thank you...
"try and see" means the same as "try to see" but rolls smother off the tongue.For once I have the impression that milum is closest to reality. From my experience in UK, "try and.." is very common in oral communication. I suspect that the alliteration in try to gives it a heavier nuance - and New Scientist emphasizes the colloquial style.
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