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#8116 10/18/00 02:37 AM
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It's a chicken (or more appropriately, sturgeon)-and-egg, back-and-forth sort of thing. If you anthropomorphize a fish on a bicycle (as many of us have), you give it human characteristics. If you personify it, you are shona

From Cambridge:

personify  
(of a person) to be a perfect example of (a thing or quality) 
The new party leader personifies the modern face of socialism.
These louts personify all that is worst in our society today.

personification  
In the film, she played a character who was the personification of evil.
During the 1920s, Al Capone was the personification of organized crime in America.

In other words, Al Capone did not go around attributing human characteristics to organized crime. The characteristics of crime were attibuted to him. Is this clear? I've had a long day and if it's not, someone let me know I'll come back to it tomorrow when I can think better [grimace]



#8117 10/18/00 03:34 AM
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you've latched on to just one sense of personification; there are two:

1a - Attribution of personal form, nature, or characteristics; the representation of a thing or abstraction as a person: esp. as a rhetorical figure or species of metaphor. b - An imaginary or ideal person conceived as representing a thing or abstraction.

2. The embodiment of a quality, idea, or other abstraction, in a real person (or, by extension, in a concrete thing); usually applied to the actual person (or thing) as embodying the quality, etc., or exemplifying it in a striking manner or degree; an impersonation, ‘incarnation’ (of something). [from OED]

anthropomorphism fits 1a.




#8118 10/18/00 12:08 PM
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call your saltician in the morning

Hope he doesn't recommend vinegar and brown paper.
Next thing I know the chips will be down.


#8119 10/18/00 12:33 PM
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Thanks for that, folks. The mists have parted somewhat!

Does the double meaning make 'personify' enantiodromic or a contranym, then?
cf "Words that are their own antonym" anyone interested
I suppose the meanings are only contrary in that they make the verb transitive or intransitive. (terminology? - it's been a while!)

Just to stir up the water again, 'personalize' can mean exactly the same as 'personify'.

I considered this word a little way back in the discussion, thinking it may have had the meaning of "assign a personality to". Which, as it turns out, it does and doesn't...



#8120 10/18/00 02:30 PM
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>Does the double meaning make 'personify' enantiodromic or a contranym, then?

my thought exactly!
if you look at some of the lists of contranyms (it's one of those things that seems to proliferate on the 'net) you will see how loosely the words "opposite" and "antonym" are treated. one example that we've had here is a 'stranger' popping in with the question "what is the opposite of the word misogynist, or a woman hater"; to which the required response should be "well, do you mean a 'woman lover' or a 'man hater'?" [I've seen the question several times, in several places, and the latter is invariably what's wanted... :-?]




#8121 10/18/00 02:59 PM
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Just to stir up the water again, 'personalize' can mean exactly the same as 'personify'.


Would an example be helpful here?
how about:
"Marriage is Love parsonified."



#8122 10/18/00 04:53 PM
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This has evolved in a very interesting way, and I've learned something. But I believe I for one, on the rare occasions I have to write either word, will continue to stick with the difference, in an attempt to circumvent contranymic confusion. For me: "Einstein personifies genius," means he is the human embodiment of that quality, and is not an intro to his quote: "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration."


#8123 10/18/00 06:12 PM
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For me: "Einstein personifies genius," means he is the human embodiment of that quality, and is not an intro to his quote: "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration."

Thank you, Anna. I love the way I am always learning here. I had alays thought that quote was attributed to Edison. Cheers,


#8124 10/18/00 06:30 PM
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>attributed to Edison

me too.

more fun with percents:

95% of this game is half mental.
-- Yogi Berra

98% of the adults in this country are decent, hardworking, honest
Americans. It's the other lousy 2% that get all the publicity. But then,
we elected them.
-- Lily Tomlin

and of course, the progenitor of Sturgeon's Law, paraphrased from Sturgeon's Revelation:

90% of science fiction is crud, but then 90% of everything is crud.

#8125 10/18/00 07:42 PM
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Whoops. Believe it was Edison. Well, y'all get my meaning.

Loved the quotes, tsuwm, even the YARTed one .


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