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I am looking for a synonym of " an old man"
There is a suffix in Russian "ok" (for male nouns) and "echk, ochk" for female , which gives a noun hint of meaning "small and I like it", for example, muzhik - man - muzhichok (small man)
So if there is a word for an old man - starik - what would be a colloquial for - starichok?
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I'm an old man. A graybeard. A senior citizen, with senility incipient. A great-grandfather. An old fossil.
A pathetic hasbeen. An octogenarian. Father Time without a scythe. A geriatrician's patient. A gerontologic problem.An antique relict. Methuselah's living grandfather. A pathetic passé patriarch ruling no one.
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To the last previous poster:
I object to you denigrating dr. bill.
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old man: a geezer, an old goat, an elder (that's my maiden name and it's also a respectful term), an aged one, a ripe soul, a well-seasoned scout...
...and it's starting to storm here, so gotta go!
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Keiva: you are not welcome to post in AWADtalk. Extorsion of undeserved reinstatedmen after
having been justifiably banned is contemptible.
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Excuse me, dr. bill, but are you sufficiently aware of the the facts to be confident that your words "extortion", "undeserved", and "justifiably" are accurate?
I am sending you a very brief PM noting a post that might suggest to you reasons why you might question that degree of confidence.
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Keiva: Go away. Extortioners are not welcome here.
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[sigh] I have just now sent the promised PM to wwh, but he chose to respond before the PM's data was sent.
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Keiva: I was your friend until you threatened to "nuke" the board, if you did not
get your way. You got your way by extortion. I have nothing but contempt
for you. You will never be welcome to post on AWADtalk.
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<<[sigh] I have just now sent the promised PM to wwh, but he chose to respond before the PM's data was sent.>>
God, you're a bore.
Go away. Speak of being a gentleman where none you have deeply hurt can hear you and they may actually reckon you one . Go away. Safe journey. Go away. You are not welcome here. Go away. You find death threats in fond wishes and fondness in disdain. Go away. You are not welcome here. Go away.
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Pooh-Bah
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<<are you sufficiently aware...?>>
Are you insufficiently aware of the meaning of the words "go away, you are not wanted here" to understand them?
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Hi vika, pleased to meet you. if there is a word for an old man - starik - what would be a colloquial for - starichok?Yes, it's a common feature to most languages that you can append a simple suffix to a word and thereby denote "small & cute" ("small" really meaning "like my child" I suspect, as physical size doesn't make much difference). If memory serves correctly, you append an "-ot" in French (thus Pierre Peter becomes Pierrot little Pete) and a "-je" [-yeh] in Dutch. I'll bet there are many other European languages where similar rules apply. There isn't really an English equivalent. For proper nouns (names) you'd probably shorten the name, and sometimes append a "y" [eeh]. Joshua becomes Josh and/or Joshy, Elizabeth becomes Liz and/or Lizzy, David becomes Dave/Davy. For standard nouns, however, there's no equivalent that I know of. I suppose you could make "man" "manling", but that just sounds weird. We'd talk about "little old men", usually meaning the phrase in a friendly fashion. "Old geezer" is also affectionate. Just to confuse matters, "old" sometimes means "good/faithful" (in the UK at least), as in "How are you doing, old boy/me old mate?" The implication is that the person is like an old friend to you, whether you've really known them years or not. Hope this helps. There are plenty of brighter intellects than mine around, who will hopefully take the time to provide further enlightenment.  Fisk
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I have no answer for you, vika, but on the line of other words: my niece calls my parents(her grandparents) Old Hoot and Coot. very affectionately, of course.
formerly known as etaoin...
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Hi, Vika. In American usage I have often read the expression "old timer" as an affectionate label for an old man. But perhaps that is no longer in use, maybe one of our US nationals can advise on that. It has never been in common use here in the UK, however, as far as I am aware, .
dxb.
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fishona, there are some diminutive suffixes in english, but most are not applied to people.. there is, from the french,
et/ette.. lunchonette, (a small place to eat,) and in US english, (UK english as well, i think) the irish een, smithers (a mess, disorder, pieces) becomes smithereens (small peices) and een is used for names, even by Dickens, Pegeen (not Peggy) Maura, (Maureen), Colleen, etc..
een show up in teeny weeny, (very small)
there are also, still in use, but losing favor, word ending that indicate a female, Actor/Actress, Waiter/Waitress.
and finally there is the odd word, like Blond/blonde.
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there are some diminutive suffixes in englishSee, I knew my little old light (lighty?  ) wasn't shining brightly enough, Helen. Indeed, the "-ette" ending from the French (bless those Normans) pervades English, as also in caravanette, maisonette, teat pipette, errrrm that's all I can think of at present. Didn't know that "smithers" meant anything, but have used the phrase "blown to smithereens" lots. And Maureen being a diminutive Maura is also news to me, so thanks for that. word endings that indicate a femaleApplies a lot to names, doesn't it? George >> Georgina, Stephen >> Stephanie, Fred(eric) >> Frederica, Max(imilian) >> Maxine, David >> Davina. I wonder if once upon a time these may have provided a means for a proud (and dominant  )father to name a daughter after himself.
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here in the UK
Yes, dxb, we'd tend to say "old geezer/bloke" or (slightly less complimentary) "old codger" over here. Never heard anyone use "old timer".
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I think the Spanish version of abuela - abuelita (grandmother) is used also with affection and respect more than size, however, the two persons I have ever heard use that term were both men and they were taller than, and adored their abuelitas. They both also liked to tease a lot. Consuelo, is this term used very often for grandfathers?
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Smithers is rarely used as a word, but it does come up again and again, as a "name" for incompitennt handy man. (tho, in Fawlty Towers, they used O'Reilly)
smithereens is very small peices..(and things might well be blown to smithereens!)
in NY, a sporting goods company, the Spalding company, makes a small pink hand ball, and these are always called spaldeens. a neat play, since the G tend to be dropped anyway-- there is a real vowel shift to ee(n) from i(ng).
the Aileen now use as a girl names, is really "Little darling", my mother detested it as name! and Colleen, is said to be uncertain.. but since my own sisters were affectionately called "Lumps of Coal" (black hair/dark eyed, black irish) i suspect colleen is a "little lump of coal".
anthracite coal is really quite beautiful... It's shiny, hard, pure black-- and compaired to peat, expensive, and desirable.. a little lump of coal might not sound complimentary today, but i think it could be a quite nice thing to be compared too.
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in NY, a sporting goods company, the Spalding companyThe company, founded in Chicago (and now headquartered in Massachusetts), has a very interesting history. Albert Goodwill Spalding was a baseball superstar in the 1870's, "at annual salaries ranging from $1,500.00 to $2,500.00, amounts considered fabulous in the rather limited baseball world of that time." When pitching for the Chicago Cubs in their 1876 championship year, "Spalding compiled an amazing record of 52 victories and 14 defeats."http://www.spalding.com/pressroom/ag_spalding.html
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Dear wow: the movies stole that "when you call me that, smile" from Owen Wister's "The virginian" of almost a hundred years ago. http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/owister.htm You have to scroll down a ways.
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Most women consider being called a crone slightly insulting.
The dictionary give a definition that is certainly insulting ("An ugly, withered old woman; a hag"), and says the word is related to carrion.
Would the word crone be associated with a witch?
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Keiva: you are most unwelcome to post in AWADtalk.
You are able to only because you managed to bluff
Wordsmith into thinking you would sue him.
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Dear AWADboard folks,
I deleted my post as it might be construed as an acknowledgement of the previous poster.
I apologize for any confusion this may have caused to you.
"The Crone is all races and all generations. An
ancient woman of Courage and Determination."
Google "crone" (in quotes) for more information re context of crone in the deleted post.
Aloha
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Keiva: According to post over a month ago, the licensing authority in your
state said you had not paid required fees. Thus you were bluffing when
you made Wordsmith believe you would sue him. I despise you.
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ancient woman of Courage and DeterminationI quite like some neo-hippy stuff (soooooo unlike me ) I just found on the archetypal Crone: http://www.waningmoon.com/guide/library/lib0015.shtml- may have some appeal to our favourite High Priestess! I also recall an Irish (? of troy's services required here) legend of a young man whose patience is severely tried by an old crone. He passes the test, and the crone reveals herself as a beautiful goddess.
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Thanks for the link FOAB, quite interesting. Here's a Listing of the Table of the Year for Wiccan and Pagans February 2nd, Candlemas IMBOLG, CANDLEMAS, OIMELC - FEB 2 Dedicated to Brigid the GODDESS of Fire and Inspiration. GODDESS of Fertility, that which was born at SOLSTICE now begins to manifest. This is also the day of initiation, the RITE of passage for WITCHES. This is a time to plant the seeds of short term goals for the new cycle and new energy. The candle procession symbolizes the Feast of the Waxing light celebrating the Rebirth of the Sun. -------------------- March 21st, Spring Equinox SPRING EQUINOX, EOSTAR, THE FESTIVAL OF TREES MARCH - 21-23 The chains of winter are broken, Spring has arrived, This is the time when all of life burst forth in joyous celebration. As at IMBOLG this is the seed time but for long range goals. Day and Night are equal bringing balance. Persephone rises from the Depths of the Underworld and brings forth new life. Hair is adorned with flowers, Eggs are decorated as they are a symbol of rebirth, This is considered the true MOTHERS Day. ------------------------------------ April 30th., Beltane BELTANE, MAY EVE, RUDEMAS APRIL 31-MAY 1 This is a time of Fertility, Creativity is nurtured. The Mayploe, a phallic fertility symbol symbolizing the God is joined with the Goddess as it is placed within the Earth. Ribbons hang from the top inviting all to join the dance of fertility weaving the magic of desire. This is a time of wild delight. Jumping the bonfire brings purification and luck. -------------------- June 22nd., Summer Solstice SUMMER SOLSTICE, MIDSUMMER EVE, LITHA, JUNE 21-23 This is the longest day of the year, the power of the Sun is at its peak and at the same time this is the beginning point of the waning of the Suns energy and power. We celebrate the strength and energy this day holds and ask that the magick created today carry us through the dark half of the year. ----------------------------------- July 31st., Lammas LAMMAS, LUGHNASAD, LUGH-MASS - JUL.31st/AUG.1 Light diminishes the days grow shorter, we have worked hard to bring things to fruition, but the Harvest is not yet clear, we know that to harvest we must sacrifice. This is the time to look within and see the sacrifice that needs to be made to transform. This is the first Harvest, the honoring of the Grain and the Corn. In Pagan times this was the time of games of skill and competition and Lugh was Honored. --------------------------------------- September 21st., Autumn Equinox AUTUMN EQUINOX, MABON, SEPT 21-23 The time of balance between light and dark, the time of the true thanksgiving, when the Harvest is realized and thanks is given for the abundance received. This is the second Harvest, the harvest of all vrops grown and reaped. We prepare for the descent into the darkness. ------------------ October 31st., Samhain SAMHAIN, HALLOWMAS, ALL SOULS DAY, HALLOWS EVE,-OCT 31ST Most WITCHES consider this the WITCHES New Year, it is the time of the Crone, of endings and beginnings, death and life. We honor our Ancestors and in respect we create a feast offering and celebrate their memory. The veils between the worlds are the thinnest and we commune with our dead and look into the mysteries through Divination and Scrying. Samhain is considered the third and final Harvest, that of the Livestock. ------------------------------------------ December 21st., Winter Solstice YULE, WINTER SOLSTICE, -DEC 21-23 The longest night of the year, darkness prevails and yet gives way and changes to bring the birth of the New Sun, and with it the hope and promise of the New Year. It is the time to release that which does not serve and prepare to birth forth a new vision for the next future. Lighting of candles, the Yule Log or bon fires symbolically give life and power to the Sun. --------------------- Copyright (C) 1995 by Echos of Enchantments., Lakewood,Ca. ----------------------------------------------------------- I also like http://www.cronechronicles.com "A Journal Of Conscious Aging"
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I also recall an Irish legend of a young man whose patience is severely tried by an old crone. He passes the test, and the crone reveals herself as a beautiful goddess.Yes, there are many such stories which I am sure Of Troy will be able to recall in a trice. I think they are parables for men : look beyond the facade to the woman beneath. Never lose your gentlemanly demeanor regardless of her whims and your rewards -- well! And why, do you think, that Anu made a woman of Irish descent his High Priestess? Hmmmmm?
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The only unforced diminutive of "man" I can think of is "mannikin", derived presumably from the French "mannequin". It is not very commonly used. It is also probably derogative, since it would describe a small man, a dwarf/"little person".
- Pfranz
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Etain comes to mind.. as i recall she is daughter to Rhiannon, who's earthy form is represented by the horse.
Rhiannon, is the protector of the O'Connor's, and i am of that house.
Rhiannon was a very powerful god, and to this day, celts, and even most anglo saxons, refrain from eating horse meat.
Rhiannon, of course was a mare, not a stallion-- all of the most powerful god were female, and gave birth.. giving birth is the most god like thing humans can do. it is a powerful act of creations, and it is entrusted to woman.
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mannikin...also spelled manikin, which makes the little man even more diminutive. And, in checking the spelling of "diminutive," I read the definition and found that it means sortof its own opposite (and I know tsuwm's got at least two terms for that kind of word): Main Entry: 2diminutive
Function: adjective
Date: 14th century
1 : indicating small size and sometimes the state or quality of being familiarly known, lovable, pitiable, or contemptible -- used of affixes (as -ette, -kin, -ling) and of words formed with them (as kitchenette, manikin, duckling), of clipped forms (as Jim), and of altered forms (as Peggy); compare AUGMENTATIVEhttp://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary...so diminutive can mean small with a state of being both lovable and contemptible. So my little manikin: Am him lovable or am him contemptible? But in the first sentence on this post, I used "diminutive" to mean the second definition: 2 : exceptionally or notably small : TINYEnough said about that, WW
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Homunculus. Lilliputian. Munchkin.
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Abuelito is absolutely used and often. It is almost considered an insult or a lack of love to call your grandparents Abuelo and Abuela.
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the crone reveals herself as a beautiful goddess.I usually go around as a beautiful goddess all the time. I turn into the crone after....  not true really - honest! only when the bloke makes me do it....cf Cyril Connolly on what turns good women bad - thoughtless menLet us go in peace to love and serve the board.
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Dotterel or Dottrel. A doting old fool; an old man easily cajoled.
Old, but perhaps worth reviving.
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<<abuelo, abuela>>
These Spanish words appear to derive from Arabic ("abu," for "father"). There are more examples of such words, but my heat-fatigued head can't come up with them. Presumably, these words were acquired by Spanish after the Moorish invasion. Anyone know more about it--or am I completely off track?
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we have been doing word from arabic into english on an off now for a while.. sugar and its distant cousin crocodile, a slew of al (alcohol, algebra, albacore (as in tuna), safari, (coming into english from swahili, which has rich borrowings from arabic)
some came through spain, and others i suspect from the crusades... the 13th and 14th centuries were rich ones for the the muslums, and many words for ideas, and things came into english from them..
Anu did a theme of yiddish, but hebrew has also enriched language.. "the land of... arret(sp?) in hebrew, got read backwards (as might happen, since hebrew is read from right to left,) and gave latin and later english terra.. (earth)
in the colonial days, several sects started an effort to revive hebrew.. since they wanted a sacred language for scripture, and rejected latin. The Bowne family (currently most well known as Bowne printers, a major print house for financial papers (prospectus, annual reports, etc) has live in NY since the late 1640's. in there house in queens, (bowne house, on bown street) the pewter cups and plates are engraved in hebrew, with word of thanks. (thanking the lord for his bounty and grace.)
with hebrew being learned, i can't help but think other words have entered english, too.
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But the question was to Spanish.
<<with hebrew being learned, i can't help but think other words have entered english, too>>
"Sandal" may be one.
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sandal - 1382, from O.Fr. sandale, from L.
sandalium, from Gk. sandalion, dim. of
sandalon "sandal," probably from Persian.
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sandal - 1382, from O.Fr. sandale, from L.
sandalium, from Gk. sandalion, dim. of
sandalon "sandal," probably from Persian.
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IP, you have posed an interesting question. If I understand correctly, you are asking about words that have been incorporated into the Spanish language from the Arabic. I am quite sure that after 800 years of Arabic occupation the influence on Spanish was considerable. I'll dust off my Pequeño Larrousse Ilustrado when I get home and see if I can come up with some for you that might be of interest.
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i found one-- you can find it in Wordplay, my thread about cloth... (all dressed up in )
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Table of the Year for Wiccan and PagansThanks wow - knew some but by no means all of this. All good stuff. Just heard recently about how the Venerable Bede had a major change of heart regarding bringing Christianity to England. Rather than just wiping out all of the temples to "idols" they would be emptied, consecrated, then made into churches. He also didn't overdo the imposition of language, e.g. Easter (dedicated to the goddess Eostara, I believe) was never renamed, although there was a Christian equivalent. Paganism (more specifically the worship of Norse gods) lived happily alongside Christianity for many years, all the local kings wisely hedging their bets. There was also a recreation of the Saints as Norse-style heroes who slew beasts and dragons and performed heroic feats. Hence the story the English patron saint St George and the Dragon, I imagine. The priests would probably have argued that symbolically speaking, the Saints did conquer dragons and serpents, these being representations of evil. Very good salesman, was Bede. Fisk
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Smithers ... does come up again and again, as a "name" for incompitennt handy man. (tho, in Fawlty Towers, they used O'Reilly)Interesting one, Helen - so does that mean Smithers in The Simpsons is meant to represent an incompetent aide, or does that meaning only apply to men doing "real" work? As far as I know we don't have a Britlish equivalent, i.e. a name applied to all incompetent handymen ( though all contributions gratefully received, fellow Brits). The incompetent handyman in Fawlty Towers may have been an Irishman called O'Reilly, but neither fact is particularly significant, any more than the fact that the long-suffering, slightly incompetent but much-maligned waiter happens to come from Barcelona and is called Manuel. - or, of course, the fact that the incompetent, dysfunctional and often deranged hotel owner is an Englishman called Basil. Well, I tell a lie there. He could only be English. Fisk
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veteran
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I think they are parables for men : look beyond the facade to the woman beneath. Never lose your gentlemanly demeanor regardless of her whims and your rewards -- well!Not being mislead by appearances is, of course, an excellent parable for everyone. I remember an episode of Lost in Space (showing my age here  )which summarised it in as basic a manner as you can get. The ugly looking, slightly cantankerous alien was actually the goody, whereas the good-looking, reasonable-sounding human was the baddy. Of course it took the (errm) Robinsons a little while to see beyond appearances. I remember being obliged to visit an old woman when I was a schoolboy. She was full of fascinating stories and obscure knowledge. I learned a lot, even if she never did change into a goddess. And why, do you think, that Anu made a woman of Irish descent his High Priestess? Indeed. But in that case she was already a goddess.
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to this day, celts, and even most anglo saxons, refrain from eating horse meatWe do indeed. But I'd always put it down to the fact that people build relationships with horses, and they're seen in a similar (though much more emotional) way to dogs and cats. Excellent if there's also a mythical basis, and if it's survived from before the Angles and Saxons came on the scene, that's something quite rare and precious. all of the most powerful god were female, and gave birth.. giving birth is the most god like thing humans can doI agree. This is where I fall out with Christianity - not only does the Mother get relegated to the back of the list (Father, Son and Holy Ghost/Spirit), but she also gets turned into a ghost  . Oh, or a virgin, of course. Enough on that subject I think!  Fisk
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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muzhik - man - muzhichok (small man)How does one pronounce the "zh"? Just curious...--------- Feeling a little "Johnnie come lately", but... "Old Man" refers directly (when I say it) to my father, and when a "motorcycle mama" (hello rhuby) speaks the words she is talking about her current "partner" (possibly, but not necessarily, her husband).
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newbie
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newbie
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I learned Russian for some time (actually it used to be compulsory but I liked it) - a very easy language for us, Poles, as we Slavs have all the phonems in common. zh is only a transcription of the Russian cyrylic letter, which is pronounced almost like French j (e.g. jardin), though the Slavic sound's a bit more harsh.
We use z with a dot above it to denote the same letter.
Just to get back on the track: in Polish the word for muzhichok would be czlowieczek; the same mechanism as in Russian because it derives from czlowiek - man. An interesting word is staruszek - the "cute and lovable" form of starzec: old man - which itself originates from staruch: "male crone"!
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear vika: Forgive me if this is a repeat. "Old fogy" is an old man out of touch
with changes in customs, clinging to outmoded ones.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Vika: Gaffer (g hard). A title of address, as "Gaffer Grey," "Good-day, Gaffer." About equal to "mate." (Anglo-Saxon, gefera, a
comrade.) Many think the word is "grandfather." (See Gammer.)
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newbie
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Join the club Lukas Yep, already joined it almost 18 months ago. I had a 'short' break but have been very cordially invited to come back and see what I was missing (thanks, Jackie ). And I did follow your gowombki conversation although I felt forced to set off for lunch just in the middle of it...
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Carpal Tunnel
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Hi Pezcyclando©! On this side of the pond, the 'merkin one, we call them CARE packages. I get them, and give them too!
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear consuelo: you get ten demerits for using "merkin" to refer to USns We thrashed that one out a long time ago. "merkin" is a pubic wig, and is a joke in very poor taste by Marin county types. Look in up in Quinion, at www.worldwidewords.com What color merkin do you wear? http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/merkin.htm
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Carpal Tunnel
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I just knew you'd be all over that one, Dr. Bill! I'll see your ten demerits and raise you twenty, but as far as this goes: What color merkin do you wear?Even if I had need of one, it would still be "none of your steenkin' beeswax" .
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear consuelo: My pubic hair has thinned considerably, but I do not plan on
acquiring a prosthesis for it.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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we call them CARE packages. I get them, and give them too!
Hi Concyclando!
You mean Red Cross parcels are called CARE packages over there, or are we talking about mummies' best supplies? Or (like I was) both?
Pezcy Cola ©
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both-- CARE is non profit organization (like OXFam ?) that donates or ships and distributes oversea's food and famine relief.. so good natured people contribe to CARE, and when kids are away at school or camp or just away cause they are, good natured people pack up all the special foods you can't get there (where ever there is) and call them Care packages.. it works out nicely, but the sender shows they care, and recipent feels cared for..
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