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I just saw this at the English Culture site. Quite
entertaining as well as "Eddie"-fying.
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Mnemonic Poem
A rhyme to help you with your history lessons
This is a traditional aid used in English schools to help students remember the order of the Monarchs of England and Great Britain from William the Conqueror on to the present day:
Willie Willie Harry Stee
Harry Dick John Harry three;
One two three Neds, Richard two
Harrys four five six....then who?
Edwards four five, Dick the bad,
Harrys (twain), Ned six (the lad);
Mary, Bessie, James you ken,
Then Charlie, Charlie, James again...
Will and Mary, Anna Gloria,
Georges four, Will four Victoria;
Edward seven next, and then
Came George the fifth in nineteen ten;
Ned the eighth soon abdicated
Then George six was coronated;
After which Elizabeth
And that's all folks until her death.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Well spotted - here's the version I know:
Billy, Billy, Henry, Steve
Henry, Dick, John, Henry Three.
Three Teds, then Richard Two;
Three more Henries - then what’s new?
Two more Teds, then Dick the Bad,
Two more Henries, Ted the Lad.
Mary, Bess and Scottish Jim,
Charles but they beheaded him!
One more Charles then Jamie Two;
Bill-and Mary, Anne - then who?
Four Georges, Billy, then Victoria -
These lists of names were sent to bore ya!
Ted the Seventh liked his fun,
Georgie was the quiet one.
Ted came when Mrs Simpson beckoned,
Then came George and Bess the Second.
Is there one for Presidents of the USA?
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
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jmh, Re US Presidents (and a truckload of other lists), see: http://www.quibs.co.uk/mnemonic.htmlAs usual, an innocent post sets me off on a fascinating ride on the byways of the Internet, taking me places I wouldn't have found on my own. Thank-you.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Jo, what about Scottish monarchs?
Bingley
Bingley
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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>Jo, what about Scottish monarchs? Good point. I'm knee deep in the Scottish Wars of Independence with the kids. (Wading in the **** most of the time, so I keep my mouth shut). In my day, most English childrens' knowledge of Scottish Kings and Queens started with Mary Queen of Scots and ended with James VI/I with a bit of Shakespeare (literally) thrown in. These days we have the Mel Gibson view of history. I'll have to brush up, it's all a bit tricky politically. (Perhaps tsuwm, personal grammar advisor, would like to check my dubious ' in the last paragraph!)For those of you who would like the full list of Scottish Kings and Queens, here are a couple of good websites. As a non-native, I'm not aware of any amnemonics but I'm sure there will be something out there. http://www.duffus.com/scottishkings.htmhttp://www.nwlink.com/~scotlass/
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Pooh-Bah
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my dubious '
I am reasonably certain that, as "children" is plural, the "s" should be preceded by the apostrophe to signify the possessive.
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Carpal Tunnel
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To make possesives: add 's to singular nouns except Classical and Biblical names ending in s; add only ' to plural nouns except plurals which do not end in s.
Examples: dog > dog's, Ms. Jones > Ms. Jones's, Augustus > Augustus', Jesus > Jesus', dogs > dogs', children > children's, mice > mice's
Note the above rule does not apply to pronouns: it > its, not it's.
There are a couple of minor complications, but the above rule will hold good 999 times out of a thousand.
Bingley
Bingley
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Pooh-Bah
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How good it is to discover the rules after all these years!
Please replace childrens' with children's - at least I knew I was wrong!
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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add 's to singular nouns except Classical and Biblical names ending in s
Any idea why these categories are treated differently?
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Carpal Tunnel
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>Note the above rule does not apply to pronouns: it > its, not it's.
it's truly amazing how many folks have trouble with the possessive pronoun -- and it's quite easy to keep straight if only you remember its consistency with his and hers!
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
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add 's to singular nouns except Classical and Biblical names ending in s
Please tell me this is a joke! As if English wasn't hard enough - now we have to be scholars, historians and theologians in order to construct simple possessive cases.
So my colleague James gets James', and my neighbour's dog would get Brutus', but my mate Santos would have Santos's. Marcus would get Marcus' because of his connections. Chris I guess would be Chris's, but then again perhaps being a diminutive of a name having Christ as its origin would be enough for a Biblical guernsey?
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old hand
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old hand
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>why these categories are treated differently?<
This looks somewhat analogous to the "Octopus controversy" of late. The genetive of the classical and Biblical names certainly used to be formed according to Latin and Greek rules ("Augusti", "Jesus"). So the simple apostrophe avoids inferring that they were ending in ..uses or ..oses.
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Pooh-Bah
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Thank you, wsieber.
Sometimes, I wish I had studied Latin. Other times, I wish I had skipped school altogether.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Good God Jackie, this is nearly a case of the cure being worse than the sickness.
I think the only time mnemonics were ever used in my education was in primary school when I learned to spell friend. So as not to mistake the placement of the vowels our teacher taught "first you fri (fry) and then it's the end" and the usual "I before E except after C"
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this is nearly a case of the cure being worse than the sickness.
Oh, I quite agree! But I think that perhaps we think so because we did not have the history of England drilled into us as strongly in school as did/do those who live there.
Though perhaps Canadians did, when under the monarchy.
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Carpal Tunnel
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I don't know about that. Our Constitution was only brought home - repatriated - in the 80's. Even before then we were not taught about the British monarchy. I would have to ask my grandma (Granny to all of us). Granny is 87 so she may have some insight that I do not.
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Pooh-Bah
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the usual "I before E except after C" A very useful rule - as in "Thier wiers were ieght feet in hieght." And this is not just slieght of hand, iether! 
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Très true. I should have added the expression we have here..."except for the many exceptions and Jewish names"
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Carpal Tunnel
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Not a poem, but a song- sung to the tune of "Yankee Doodle" for English grammar no less
Be, seen, feel, become, appear,
Look, taste, grow, sound, remain, smell
Copulative verbs take nominative,
Predicate noun or adjective!
It helped me with a number of grammar questions on English test over the years.
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Carpal Tunnel
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In reply to:
A very useful rule - as in "Thier wiers were ieght feet in hieght." And this is not just slieght of hand, iether!
Because the rule is not complete; it should be I before E except after C when the sound is ee. Still doesn't work all the time, but it's much more useful that way.
Bingley
Bingley
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I'd never heard that variant; the one we learned was:
i before e, except after c
or when sounded as a,
as in neighbor or weigh
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Carpal Tunnel
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Who said rules weren`t made to be broken. What we have to date...
i before e except after C when it sounds as ee (ceiling)
i before e except after C and when it sounds like a (neighbor,weigh)
i before e except after C and in Jewish names (Leiba Stein - pronounced LeeBaa and Stein as in skein)
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Please tell me this is a joke!
I couldn't agree more!
I was obviously misinformed when I was told that if you make any name ending in "s" a possessive you can skip the second "s".
Using this approach James has what is James's, but this can instanteously change to James'.
And the same applies to Chris (Chris's/Chris'), Jess (Jess's/Jess'), Santos, etc.
I very much prefer that approach. And, to be honest, I'll probably stick with it in the hope it becomes accepted usage.
I'm pedantic enough about the correct use of its and it's !
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did not have...the history of England drilled into us as strongly in school as did/do those who live thereI suspect there's a difference between the "did" and the "do", Jackie. I certainly never had to learn every single English monarch ever. What possible value would there be to that? Perhaps in the days when any learning was considered A Good Thing, the attitude may have been different. The only remnant left in my schooldays was the occasional requirement to remember exact years and dates of battles and treaties and so on. I'm sure all of us have had to endure some such pointless learning by rote. 
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Pooh-Bah
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>the history of England
The problem is that we weren't taught any history (one year of Egyptians, Greeks, Romans; one year of life in Tudor times). I had to find it out all for myself when trying to piece together Shakespeare. I was never sure if Richard III came before or after Henry IV part 2 and why did Falstaff keep cropping up? Now I know it was all a plot and Richard III was a jolly nice chap, so I can rest in piece! I find that the rhyme is quite handy when trying to date old churches or buildings.
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I find that the rhyme is quite handy
You mean you know it by heart, Jo? I'm impressed!
Did you teach it to yourself, though, or was it impressed upon you?
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Aside from the links that kept me busy popping across the globe,[EDIT - INSERT MISSING THOUGHT HERE] I did a search to see if this has come up before... for often do I spell what (I guess) is correctly spelled "their" as "thier". Searching for the incorrect version, I find that I do it often (now how's I'm gonna learn if y'alls ain't say'in nothin') and I have a partner in crime - WOW. Since I have the voice of experience on my side, I hereby refuse to ever change again (unless by mistake  ).
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Oh, thanks to the links posted by you all I found a nautical reference and also an answer to my question as to which direction one should pass the port at dinner :
Sides of a ship:
Port and Left both have 4 letters
Port is always passed round the table to the left
Port Wine is Red (the colour of the port side light) (Roy W Muwaw)
Now Musick noted re thier/their
I find that I do it often and I have a partner in crime - WOW.
to that I say : guilty guilty guilty Moi.
It's a problem I have struggled with forever! Ah, well, one must have one small imperfection to prove one's humanity!
(running for her life ...)
wow
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Just try remembering the Saxon kings and what they were "king" of. You'll find the post-Conquest kings and queens a doddle with or without memory aids after that! I gave up in the end and simply looked them up. Wasn't good for exams of course, but, hey, there are limits! "William the First, William the Second, Henry the First, STEPHEN!" (Courtesy of "The Fourth Form at St Michaels", a very old British radio show).
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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I was waiting for Dr. Bill to contribute a mnemonic, but I guess he's hiding. Hoping no one takes offense, there is a famous one used in medical schools to remember the endings of the facial nerve, which goes, "Oh Oh Oh to touch and feel a girl's vagina -- sex hurrah!" My wife, a registered nurse, learned a different one in nursing school which began, "On old Olympus' topmost top (I forget the rest -- it's not as memorable as the boys' version). Dr. Bill can at least tell us what the nerve endings are; I only remember ocular, trigeminal, vagus.
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Anonymous
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We used to say "On Old Olympus' Towering Tops a Finn and German Viewed Some Hops", but i'm sure i'm mondegreening it.
EDIT: i looked it up, and it's Olfactory, Optic, Oculomotor, Trochlear, Trigeminal, Abducens, Facial, Auditory, Glossopharyngeal, Vagus, Spinal Accessory, Hypoglossal
btw, kev and wow, that's frightening about your inclination toward "thier". i've always had trouble with that very word, and will never forget it b/c i once misspelled it on a sixth grade test. i'll never forget staring in shock at that accursed red mark adulterating my pristine spelling test.... certainly equal in shame and horror to hester's infamous "A".
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kev and wow, that's frightening about your inclination toward "thier".
Perhaps -- in my case -- it's because I am a (very fast) hunt n' peck typist. Don't know about Keven.
wow
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