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Can anyone help me figure out why "grow crops" is just fine but "grow a business" is irksome? (or is it just me....  )
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
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why "grow crops" is just fine but "grow a business" is irksome?
Perhaps it is because "grow" often refers to a natural process. When you "growing a business," you are more intimately involved with the clients and the marketing. Corn doesn't need much prompting to commence photosynthesis. Of course, I say this lightly and as I eat an apple that has more chemicals on it than my computer's motherboard.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Interesting question, Anna, You certainly hear "The
business has grown" without a wince. Yet we say, "I want to expand my business". I think Brandon's right;
it's a matter of usage.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Thanks, Brandon and Jackie. We're getting somewhere. As Jackie said, though, I have no problem with the intransitive usage, e.g. "the business/economy is growing" ... maybe it does indeed have to do with the organic element (pesticides aside).
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Carpal Tunnel
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In Montreal (CDA) we say 'Grow a business' all the time. We use it mostly to mean increasing the business in a particular area (eg. I want to grow the shampoo business in grocery stores). I think it may be because the French say "faire grandir un marche" (oops, do not have French keyboard at moment as I am in an internet cafe in Florida, USA, so you will have to imagine the accent on the e there) Which means to 'make an area of business grow'. I believe that is why the expression is so widely used - and accepted. To be honest, I am not sure if the rest of the country uses grow in the same way. There seems to be some important differences between Quebec English and the rest of Canada English.
Well, I have officially crossed the line into being a fanatic. I am on vacation and, just had to come in to view AWAD. We are avoiding the noon-day sun and I thought this was the perfect place. Pretty good excuse no?
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Pooh-Bah
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(oops, do not have French keyboard at moment as I am in an internet cafe in Florida, USA, so you will have to imagine the accent on the e there)
Bel, é is achievable, if you are using Word for Windows, by holding down ALT and typing 0233. A whole range of accents is possible using this sort of technique.
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Carpal Tunnel
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>Bel, é is achievable, if you are using Word for Windows actually®, he said with élan, this works equally well inside our own ineffable AWAD editor, at least with most browsers. here's a link I provided elsewhen for a complete(?) character set: http://www.ramsch.org/martin/uni/fmi-hp/iso8859-1.html
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Pooh-Bah
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Meanwhile ...
before we get too obsessed by the pleasures (?!) of the qwerty keyboard, what are the important differences between Quebec English and the rest of Canada English?
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We are avoiding the noon-day sun and I thought this was the perfect place. Pretty good excuse no? ..thus proving once and for all you are neither a mad dog nor an Englishman 
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One very important difference is the adoption of French Canadian words into the English vocabulary, eg: DÉPANNEUR (pronounced Day-pan-er) is ONLY used in Québec - not in any other French speaking country - to mean a convenience store; one of those open-all-night "mom 'n pop" stores. All English speaking people in Québec use this term. It is not used, nor understood, anywhere else in Canada. A second example is the word AUTOROUTE (pronounce OH-toe-route) to mean a highway (many-laned, high-speed road). It is pretty self evident when you look at the word - a road (route) for automobiles but is not used elsewhere.
CHECK is an example of a word that should be used the same everywhere but isn't. When I am at a restaurant in Quebec and I want to pay for my food I ask for the bill (la facture) not for the check like the rest of Cda (or the USA as I found out this week-end). A check is what you pay your bills with and in Québec is spelled the French way 'cheque' in both English and French.
I usually find out I've used a 'Québecism' when I say something and I get a blank look from the person I am speaking with.
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Pooh-Bah
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>A check is what you pay your bills with
We pay our bills with cheques too. As a check is what you expect in a check up and a bill is found on a duck we never ever pay checks with bills, so there is a little remaining British influence at work there, I expect.
>A second example is the word AUTOROUTE
I think Autoroute is the main term used in France and is well understood throughout Europe. In Britain we never say highway, instead we say motorway. I think all main roads are technically highways as it is sometimes the Highways department who repair them and there was always Dick Turpin.
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Pooh-Bah
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In England and Wales, and possibly Scotland, ALL roads - even footpaths - are technically highways; the Queen's Highway, no less. This usually includes the pavement (sidewalk) or verge at the edge.
Mind you, only a local government official or a pompous ass (the terms are not really synonimous) would use the term "highway" for a footpath.
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Carpal Tunnel
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ALL roads - even footpaths - are technically highways
At the risk of being a LGO or PA, I'm not sure this is strictly accurate: the lane passing my house is classified as a Bridleway, which gives no-one a right to pass with a wheeled vehicle. As my lawyer recently insisted I sign a statutory declaration to the effect that it had been so used for at least 60 years, I know this to my cost!
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Carpal Tunnel
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classified as a Bridleway...
...and you didn't 'bridle' at having to pay? 
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Pooh-Bah
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I was trying to compare the use of highway for major roads but I agree that roads are technically highways.
Given the term "highways and byways", Maverick must live off a byway, by the way, a bit like this board, meandering off the beaten track, you never know where you'll end up. In this case, in the Welsh mud, I understand!
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Carpal Tunnel
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You're right Jo, there is a lot of British influence in Canadian English. For example, we would never think of writing colour or honour without the U. These extra letters are edited out of any book published in the U.S.A.
There are several more examples of these that do not spring to mind at the moment (maybe it's age) but I'll try to think about it in case this subject comes up again.
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There are several more examples of these that do not spring to mind at the moment (maybe it's age) but I'll try to think about it in case this subject comes up again.Don't forget that Canadian English uses the "proper" name for the last letter of the alphabet, as immortalised in the beer commercial. As a child the "zee" was the most grating part of Sesame Street for my Anglican ears.
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Thank-you Max!! Zed, Zed. Seems pretty basic to me. That commercial is straight on. I have never ever in my life said aboot (except when out shopping for something to cover my feet in the winter). I just love it. Gin.
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Zed is the letter name in Indonesian as well, but for public announcements in English, at airports for example, they use the American zee. Bizarre. Indonesians also tie themselves up in knots trying to use the American system of writing dates (month day year) rather than their own one which they share with English (day month year).
Bingley
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>American system of writing dates (month day year) rather than their own one which they share with English (day month year)
I've taken to writing dates in full wherever possible - 12th March 2010 to avoid at least some confusion. I always do a double take when I see a date like 12/15/99, wondering how anyone managed to squeeze in a few extra months into the year. I wonder how transatlantic airlines cope?
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I wonder how transatlantic airlines cope?
Badly.
I remember this prompted one of my favourite bits of creative graffiti, when The World's Favourite Airline ran a major ad campaign stressing the merits of rapid transatlantic Concorde, with the tagline
Lunch in London
Dinner in New York
to which a witty wag added:
Luggage in Bermuda!
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Carpal Tunnel
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what is it about the letter Z that elicits such alternatives as 'zed' and 'izzard' and 'uzzard'?
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Funny that you mention that Bingley. In Canada the English write their dates as Month, day, year, whereas the French write it as Day, month, year. I guess this is one of those cases where Canadian English does not follow British English.
One thing I have noticed, in electronic communications here the date is often noted as Year, month, day.
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enthusiast
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I wonder how transatlantic airlines cope?
I don't know whether this expression suffers from transatlantic misinterpretation as well as trans-equatorial, but in this part of the world the word "momentarily" means "for a moment" rather than the US usage of "in a moment", so there is much consternation when a US pilot announces that your plane will be in the air "momentarily".
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Pooh-Bah
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Yes if you have a few hours to spare you could search on the word momentarily to find rather clear dividing lines on the subject. I would never use the word "YART".
Myself, I vary from cross to highly amused by the term. It always seems strange to land "for a moment" or stop at a train station "for a moment", it hardly seems worth the effort.
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Carpal Tunnel
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>I would never use the word "YART".
yes, isn't it gusting how these abstruse acronyms are bandied about by those in the know?
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Pooh-Bah
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yes, isn't it gusting how these abstruse acronyms are bandied about by those in the know?
Only momentarily, in my experience.
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enthusiast
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you could search on the word momentarily to find rather clear dividing lines on the subject. I would never use the word "YART".
Oops, I see what you mean, Jo. I guess it's a perennial problem for bulletin boards like this with new contributors joining constantly. I don't have a solution, I'm afraid. I'll be buggered (excuse the French) if I'm going to search all postings for keywords before I start typing a response, or wade through them all as a one-off familiarization, so I guess we'll all have to just sigh, think YART to ourselves, and be patient.
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"Thou whoreson zed, thou unnecessary letter" as one of our distinguished predecessors put it.
Enigma prefers Zeffirelli to zed. Does it know something about reactions from the other side to "Romeo and Juliet"?
Bingley
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old hand
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Having reflected on this problem, which is likely to grow exponentially with the size and age of the Board, only one (radical) solution occurred to me: Make the program delete the posts once they have reached a certain age. This would - however coarsely - simulate the behaviour of human memory..
Since we are interested in contributions from new subscribers, we should not raise the threshold by constant cries of YART. A schoolteacher is also obliged to repeat many things in a yearly rhythm.
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Since we are interested in contributions from new subscribers, we should not raise the threshold by constant cries of YART
I agree! One of the appealing things about this Board is its eclecticism, and lack of elitism. Excessive verbal spanking for YARTing could scare off potential contributors. In a private message to someone, I said that Anu reminds me of Charlie from "Charlie's Angels", an unseen benevolence. I wonder if there's any chance that our Charlie could be petitioned for an opinion on YARTing?
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Pooh-Bah
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I hope you don't mind. I've copied some of this discussion over to a new thread in Miscellany called "Time for a Pow Wow" as I think a few more people may (or even, may not) like to express a point of view.
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as the putative coiner of this damnable acronym, I will say just two things in its defense: first, I think it is useful as a flag to the newbie that this topic has been visited afore -- not as a warning but as a matter of interest, in the event said newbie might want to LIU (recognizing that at this point in our devolution only use of the 'search' function would allow one to look anything up!); second, I don't think that anyone has used it as a "spanking", although it could have been perceived that way; third, I think we're getting way too serial again -- after all, this ain't the World Serious. 8-)
oops, that was three things.
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I wasn't really put off when I was YARTed the first time I came on board. Actually, it kinda made me get off my tuckus and look around in back threads. There's some interesting stuff back there. It would be a shame if everything was erased. PLUS, if a topic has been done to death, what's wrong with a nudge. And if it is interesting enough to start anew, well, nobody will bring up the YART effect.
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old hand
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After a while, though, once we're sick of explaining ourselves, our posts of telling someone that a topic has been put to sleep will be simplified to merely:
YART!! YCLIU!
Do you really think a new-comer will understand this?
P.S. If they were to use Enigma to decipher the meaning they would be possibly even more confused. (Yates!! Yea!)
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