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Just reading a book about the transition in England from memory to written records (as one does), and came across quite an interesting point: in the 12C, to 'record' something meant to bear oral witness - not to write something down; spoken words were legally valid and often outweighed anything written down. By mid/late 12C, though, written records were rapidly beginning to supersede the spoken word as being legally valid in courts, etc - spoken words seriously declined in importance.
The book also raises interesting issues (although declines to answer them, saying they're another book entirely) about the perception that literacy is necessarily a requisite of progressive civilisation, which is the pervasive assumption in the West...
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>>The book also raises interesting issues (although declines to answer them, saying they're another book entirely) about the perception that literacy is necessarily a requisite of progressive civilisation, which is the pervasive assumption in the West...>>
I can see where it could be another whole book entirely. The question is so provocative. Just defining what a "progressively civilized person" is would make a a most interesting thesis. I'd settle for a short essay. I'd love to read one right now especially.
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Just defining what a "progressively civilized person" is would make a a most interesting thesis. That's the question really, isn't it - what you're after in a 'civilisation'. If it's a good standard of living (different from, but not necessarily exclusive of, a high income), then I'm not sure that literacy makes any difference - although of course most members of this board would be forlorn without their written words, I imagine! There's another question: would it be possible to be 'wordcrazy' (  ) in a purely oral society?
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old hand
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would it be possible to be 'wordcrazy' in a purely oral society?
I don't know if this counts, quite, but here goes: did you know that there are poets who speak/perform their works, and I don't believe they write them down - because - they use sign language? There's a poetry to the way the hands move that is entirely different from the poetry we get with the use of beautiful, elegant or expressive words. Think the sign language poet is probably wordcrazy! or maybe signcrazy would be more apt....
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did you know that there are poets who speak/perform their works, and I don't believe they write them down - because - they use sign language?
I've heard of poets, I think these were in the Balkans, who recite poetry much like the originators of the Iliad and Odyssey (let's not get into a bunfight over authorship here, though!) - so thousands of lines, with no written queues. I think that's quite incredible - but then, although not commonplace for Greeks and Romans, it wasn't a novelty for them. Many of the ancients would think that our bright students are terribly benighted for only speaking one, maybe two langauges, and many not having the first clue about rhetoric etc... which comes back to the idea of a (mostly) non-literate society and civilisation...
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Carpal Tunnel
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I would imagine that while literacy and the use of written documents is not a prerequisite for "civiliation" or "progress", it would seem to be mandatory for the development, maintenance and consistency of complex systems - such as the legal system - over time. Interesting proposition, though!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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I would imagine that while literacy and the use of written documents is not a prerequisite for "civiliation" or "progress", it would seem to be mandatory for the development, maintenance and consistency of complex systems - such as the legal system - over time. Interesting proposition, though!
Yes, CK, there is no denying that now but I'd like to go back for a visit (time machine needed here, of course) to the oral times of Homer and imagine this...Odysseus shooting the breeze with King Alcinous....
"As for me, I know nothing
So completely delightful as a land where people are filled
With good humor, and those that feast in the halls sit quietly
At tables covered with good things to eat and listen
To the songs of a poet, while the wine-bearer draws wine from the bowl
And fills the goblets of all. This seems to me
The finest thing in the world.
BOOK IX, The Odyssey of Homer
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in the America, only the Mayans had developed a full written language, but South America(Inca) and Mexico had civilizations. Some of their religious practices were awful by our standards, (human sacrifice was common) but they had cities, tax rolls, armies, hugh buildings projects organized by civil authorities, myths, religon... Civilization! Mexico had developed a wheel, but with no domesticated animals to use, they had not yet learn to put the wheel to work (ie, wheelbarrows)
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