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wwh writes:
I believe there should be no "hidden agenda" on the board. Only discussion of words and phrases
I concur 100%.
I think it would be interesting to read the different applications of deconstruction. It seems it means one thing in epistemology and a slightly different thing in political applications. It seems, from what I read above of political applications, that deconstruction is an intention in propoganda: write in such a way that you can worm yourself out if caught in a phrase. Whatever you do, write so that you cannot be pinned down. That kind of thinking gives me shivers as an initial reaction.
But really: In which fields is the term deconstruction used as a springboard to discussion, whether seriously entertained or used as a concept to reject? Which fields?
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SilkMuse, since you have chosen not to accept private messages, then I shall have to post here in public: There is only one person here with a hidden agenda, and that is your friend, who shall remain nameless. The rest of us are coping as we can. Ask him about his threat to nuke the board. Ask any of us what he has done to hurt us. Ask why such an extraordinary, unprecedented step as banning had to be taken. And if you still have any doubts, I recommend you read "I'm OK, You're OK," before you jump to any more conclusions. Thanks. 
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AnnaS, i disagree with you about there only being one person here with a hidden agenda.. how ever there was one person with a what seemed like an agenda of destruction.
I remember all those in white (hi e!) and (Hi D!)messages!
You and faldage had a hidden agenda! it just wasn't a destructive one!
as for whether or not they should or shouldn't exist, they will! put three people together, and things start getting political! we must work to manage the politics, and make it constructive and positive
and i think we can say the out come of your hidden agenda was positive at least for you personally, but it was bad for AWAD when you first moved, and didn't have time, or a computer to use, and didn't post for weeks on end.
secondly, i think you are being a bit unfair to Silk Muse.. I can be your friend (and i think i am) and still disagree with you! (see above paragraphs!) Don't presume that other can't do the same thing.
I think our Silkie has been a wonderful contributor, and has not fed fuel to the flame wars. I don't really know exactly how she feels about the banning, since she has generally avoid the topic, and kept to words-- and least for several weeks now.
we do run the risk of becoming too much of private club, and that would be a bad thing. the recent disruptions have left everyone a bit sensitive (not with out cause), and you have special cause to be hyper sensitive, so please understand i am trying to act a balm, and if my fumbling is not as soothing as i hope, it is intended as a balm, not as salt!
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what an interesting theory is deconstruction ~ i somehow find it ironic that it is just nebulous enough a concept as to almost be self-descriptive (i forget the rhetoric term for this phenomenon, but). anyone have a good source which defines this movement more clearly than Goldstein's offering in AHD? i agree with the above comments that suggesting that words mean nothing in the absence of hidden meanings makes the entire idea sound ludicrous at best ~ surely there's something more to the theory. silkmuse ~ i wasn't quite sure what to make of your post, and i'm glad you've explained it a bit further. as AnnaS has said, there was only one member of this Board who consistently demonstrated a hidden agenda ~ and he has been banned. there will always be misunderstandings, but with the exception of that particular fly in the ointment, we've always had a collective maturity and intelligence sufficient to smooth over any rough spots and hurt feelings. stick around ~ if you (amazingly!) saw something you liked in this board at such a time of turmoil, you'll be *amazed at how much fun it'll be without poltergeist(s)! wordwind, your comment "write in such a way that you can worm yourself out if caught in a phrase. Whatever you do, write so that you cannot be pinned down." is an extremely apt description * of recent activity ~ and perhaps the only viable example of a need for decontruction (to the uninformed reader, comments can be sugar-coated sufficient to hide the malicious intent behind them). EDIT(s): I, too, enthusiastically agree with Wofa's suggestion. in the absence of persistent, prolonged and intentional attacks on the board and its members, which we've seen can end only in banning, i agree that we all stumble once in a while and are deserving of forgiveness and forgetness[sic] * albeit clearly not an intentional one, and my apologies if my post seemed to be suggesting as much. this is a perfect example of how our interpretation of text must fit into the framework of what we know of the author ~ would this be a component of deconstruction?
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RE:(to the uninformed reader, comments can be sugar-coated sufficient to hide the malicious intent behind them).
and so too, harsh sounding words aren't always as harsh as they sound!-- remember Faldage and Dr Bill's fake battles? some us cringed as they battled wits.. but it was all in good fun (at least for them if not for the rest of us.)
i will admit i had a bit of hidden agenda in starting this thread. i wanted us to be able to talk about some of things going on here, in more neutral way. and we have pretty much done that.
deconstructing and reading into post will always be done.. but i think we are getting to the point where it is a bit less destructive!
by bring out the topic as a general one, and not placing blame, we can begin to establish mutually agreed "terms" which we really never will mutually agree too!
We will always have some strife, some hidden agendas, some secret (and not so secret!) friendships, and battles. but we still can be civil, and work things out.
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Caradea,
You wrote:
wordwind, your comment "write in such a way that you can worm yourself out if caught in a phrase. Whatever you do, write so that you cannot be pinned down." is an extremely apt description of recent activity ~ and perhaps the only viable example of a need for deconstruction (to the uninformed reader, comments can be sugar-coated sufficient to hide the malicious intent behind them).
If my words seemed to refer to recent activities, it definitely was not my intention to do so. I was really and truly writing about long political documents in which the average reader would be lost in a whirlwind of interpretations and the writer would have many ways out. If my writing caused any reader to deduce otherwise, well, then that has more to do with the ear of the receiver than the mind of this writer. Ironic, huh? Times do have incredible bearing upon interpretation.
Best regards,
WW
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Deconstruction aside for a moment, I think part of what's going on here are the individual interpretations of the term "hidden agenda." I've always construed it as a negative thing (misrepresenting oneself) but not all do, apparently.
So I LedIU, and here's what AHD says:
hidden agenda
An undisclosed plan, especially one with an ulterior motive.
ulterior
1. Lying beyond what is evident, revealed, or avowed, especially being concealed intentionally so as to deceive:* an ulterior motive.
---
*E.A.
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yes, i just sent a PM and asked.. Who decides the meaning? the reader or the writer? and often (very often!) there is gap in their understanding. we each bring so much of our selves, our experiences to bear.. it is hard to write with a pure 'tone' (and i think jackie is very, very good at getting tone right.. to me, she is always clear -- i never need to be told when she has her tongue in her cheek and is joking.. somehow, i know.. )
as for me, in the early weeks i was here, i came across as strident (a bit of critism that stung, because the poster was so very kind, and pointed out were i went wrong so kindly, was someone who's opinion i had already learned to value, and they sent me a mild repremand, that really helped in the long run. they were so kind, and so truthful, i saw clearly they were trying to be helpful and not hurtful (and i think they did help!--now people here accuse me of being a peacemaker!) but i am still almost reduced to tears when i think about it!
i haven't yet been able to master tone.. but i have learned to be a bit gentler, and to sometimes back off, and it works better for me..
i don't think hidden agendas have to be negitive.. (but hidding things can be negitive and destructive) -- still i think the fun AnnaS and Faldage had while courting here was hidden, fun and most definately not negitive in the outcome!
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I know I've made this reference before, but this discussion reminds me of the film Barcelona, wherein one finds the priceless bit of dialogue:
Fred: Maybe you can clarify something for me. Since I've been, you know, waiting for the fleet to show up, I've read a lot, and--
Ted: Really?
Fred: And one of the things that keeps popping up is this about "subtext." Plays, novels, songs -- they all have a "subtext," which I take to mean a hidden message or import of some kind. So subtext we know. But what do you call the message or meaning that's right there on the surface, completely open and obvious? They never talk about that. What do you call what's above the subtext?
Ted: The text.
Fred: OK, that's right, but they never talk about that.
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Isaac Asimov told a story that I was never sure if he was telling it on himself or on the English professor.
Isaac Asimov was sitting in on a college English class that was discussing one of his books. The professor was going on and on about what the author meant and Asimov was sitting in the back shaking his head in bewilderment. After the class was over, Asimov went up and introduced himself to the professor and commented that when he was writing the book he had none of what the professor said about it in mind. The professor told Asimov what a pleasure it was to meet him but said that "just because you wrote it what makes you think you have any idea what it was about?"
If you think about the volume of work that Isacc Asimov put out you realize that there is no way he could put a lot of time into analyzing what he had written. Anything the professor was attributing to the meaning of the work would have been entirely on the subconscious level for Asimov.
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