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#63968 04/05/02 03:46 PM
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wwh Offline OP
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You have to remember that "cay" is a Spanish word, and remember that "quay" of "quai" is French with entirely different meaning, a place for mooring vessels along river bank, for instance. In some novels the Quai D'Orsai was headquarters of French secret police.


#63969 04/07/02 04:13 AM
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I'm a new subscriber who doesn't know what icon to use for this reply, so I'll accept the default, which is 'note', whatever that means.

I'm not so sure tht 'cay', strictly speaking, is a Spanish word that [American] English has incorporated into its main body [with the same definition the Spanish have for it]. The following words seem to me to be related, at least at first blush: cay, key, and quay or quai. Yes, a 'quay' "..is a wharf or reinforced bank where ships are loaded or unloaded", and a 'cay' "..is a small, low island composed largely of coral or sand". And a 'key' "..is a low offshore island or reef, especially in the Gulf of Mexico; a cay". [Definitions from the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition; Houghton Mifflin Company, Boston New York, 1996] So the Florida Keys are cays, that's certainly true.

But if you read the etymologies for these words you discover that 'cay' is an "..Alteration (influenced by QUAY) of Spanish cayo, probably from Taino." And 'key'is an "..Alteration (influenced by key, variant of QUAY) of Spanish cayo. See CAY." But what makes this noteworthy is the etymology of 'quay': "..Middle English keye, from Old North French cai, of Celtic origin."

In other words, I think we're really discussing an [originally] English word that went into Spanish and French and came back out as a [primarily] Spanish word, influenced by the French word. An interesting example of a word 'loaned' from English to French and Spanish and given back to English from those predecessor? languages of ours. Not the first time that's happened, and certainly won't be the last.

That gets me to the last thought I had when I looked at the first AWAD mailing I received. The theme was expressed as "loanwords from Spanish" and my reaction was: What's a 'loanword'? Is that a word borrowed from another language, or loaned to English by another language? If so, when do we repay it or give it back? And wouldn't the theme been just as easily expressed as "words from Spanish' without having to invent the awkward locution, 'loanword'? It's just possible that 'borrowing' and 'loaning' are what happened with respect to 'cay', 'keye', 'quay' or 'quai', and 'cai'. But somewhat differently than the weekly theme supposed.


#63970 04/07/02 02:53 PM
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wwh Offline OP
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Dear drowser: Thank you for a rousing good discussion of "cay". Your alertness to etymological matters makes it clear your "handle" a bit of deliberately overstated modesty. I eagerly await seeing more of your posts.



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