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In the Eastern part of the US, folks typically refer to the Western part of the country as "Out West." Conversely, those from the West call the other part "Back East." I've always liked these terms, as each conveys to me a particular set of vaguely historical images. Out West makes me think of the dusty cow-towns of cowboy, westerns, where the law was laid down by Mr. Colt. Back East always calls to mind images of wagon trains trundling across the Great Plains, the brave families aboard wondering if they'll reach the mountain passes 'afore the snows set in - makes clear to me just how short the history of this country is, that such things are still so present in our language.
One also hears "Down South" and "Up North," but these are somehow much less evocative, as they seem to gibe with the directions on a map rather than the historical development of a country.
I'm wondering if there are other such phrases people use around the world that convey such things, or that we don't understand - examples for me include "Down Under" for the antipodean regions and "Down East," which is used to refer to portions of the coast of Maine.
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in NY there is Down State ==NYC(even a Down State Medical School here in NYC.) everything out side of NYC is Up State.. (for NYC anyway!) but check with Faldage or Angel.. that might not be true Up State.
inside the city.. there is down town, and up town.. and the bridge and tunnel crowd. the bridge and tunnel crowd are those who do not live on Manhattan island.. and get into Manhattan by bridge or tunnel.
for out of towners, Manhattan is NY. for NY State, too, since Manhattan is NY county. Other boroughs are other counties. (NYC has 5 state counties, 7 main post offices, (3 in queen, 1 in each other borough) over 1000 islands, of which apx. 25 are occupied, not counting the former island that are now part of the mainland, (coney island, ie).
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Then we have downtown and uptown, referring, as I understand it, to the central business district and the up-scale residential area.
Interestingly, although the dictionary sites define downtown as the business center, they define uptown merely as the town's "upper part", without saying whether they mean "upper" in the geographical sense or in the sense of up-scale and upper class.
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everything out side of NYC is Up State.. (for NYC anyway!) but check with Faldage or Angel..
Yep, Helen, that is true here. But in the Buffalo, we prefer to be referred to as Western New York, which takes on the area of the 8 most western counties in the state.
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In most places offshore means far out to sea. But here among the barrier island residents (of South Jersey, at least) offshore means on the mainland. Usually in the phrase you have to go offshore for that or similar context. However, there are times when discussing fishing or boating that we'll still use it in it's typical meaning of out to sea.
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One expression I particularly like comes from Newfoundland. If you are not from Newfoundland you are from away.
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From away is also big in Maine, as in "He's not really from away; he wintahs in Florida, but he still summahs heah. Ayuh!"
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Hello Hyla, I don't think I've ever replied to one of your posts before!! I'm wondering if there are other such phrases people use around the world that convey such things, or that we don't understand - examples for me include "Down Under"
What's to not understand? We're down under... (unless you believe the SatireWire article where we barged our way into the northern hemisphere) http://makeashorterlink.com/?A2BE32E7
The term "Down Under" probably became known worldwide from the 'Men at Work' song http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/vegemite/menatwork.html which became famous the second time around when Australia won the America's Cup yee hah! all those years ago. I'm not sure how it really started though... Might need some help from those other fine Aussies - although every Aussie Slang dictionary I've consulted tells me I have to include the Zilders in this too. 
Hev
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Another illogicality is that we always go 'up' to London, regardless of where you're travelling from. And it often gets referred to as 'town'. Eg. if you're having a weekend in the country and you're about to travel back to London, you might ask when we were heading back to town.
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And it often gets referred to as 'town'.
This is true of St. John's (relative to the rest of Newfoundland), as well. If you live in St. John's, you're a "townie". I'm led to believe that's straight from British English (it might be archaic now). Otherwise you're from "around the bay" or a "bayman". (Also from the Brits, apparently) But we've been down this path before. right, Faldage?
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Then we have downtown and uptown, referring, as I understand it, to the central business district and the up-scale residential area.
I may have mentioned this before, but when I was a kid growing up in suburban Boston, going "uptown" was going to the "business center" of our little 'burb, and going "downtown" was going to Boston.
In Vermont, we have the (poetically named) Northeast Kingdom -- the NE corner of the state. It is extremely rural, even by Vermont standards! Towns with populations in the double (and single) digits are not uncommon in The Kingdom. I'll also add another NY state place name here. Upstate NY is indeed anything not in NYC, but the extreme northeastern part of the state is also referred to as the North Country.
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If you live in Central Australia (specifically Alice Springs) and you are travelling to Darwin, you are going to the 'Top End'.
Naturally if you are going to Adelaide you are going 'Down South' but we also have Banana Benders (people from Queensland), Croweaters (people from South Australia) etc. which conjure up all sorts of images.
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In England, 'up north' pronounced 'oop north' refers jocularly to those areas where 'up' is so pronounced, roughly the northern half of the country.
Well, jocularly if you're not from there and it's not therefore your normal pronunciation.
By the way, to me 'uptown' and 'downtown' are only used of American cities, and I've never been clear on what they mean. In London, the downtown part is called the West End, i.e. where most of the theatre and shopping and embassies are. The East End is the traditional home of the Cockneys (and now such groups as Bangladeshis); and between them is the City, the small central business district. And around them is the rest of London; these 'ends' referring only to the innermost part. If you're in London, going 'into town' probably means going into this inner part, and going into the City is more specific.
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Greetings Fearless!!!!!!!!!! Welcome aboard.
Alice Springs hey. mmmmmmm. One of my favourite places! Driving into town from the south, through the gap, with the morning sun just starting to glow. Like being in a Namitjira painting!!
I spent 6 weeks working in Tennant Creek a few years ago and fell in love with there as well. Went back for a few days late last year..... 3 hops and 8 hours airtime from Perth in my boss's VERY small Cessna 210 - had to learn how to walk every time we stopped.
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By the way, to me 'uptown' and 'downtown' are only used of American cities
??? Remember the song Downtown by Petula Clark, about 30-35 years ago? Wasn't she a british singer?
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The Petula Clark song is the obvious reference for 'downtown', but I had always assumed it was set in New York or meant for American audiences. Tony Hatch is British; don't know about Jackie Trent.
There's a line 'There are movie shows - downtown' in it. In 1965 (date of the hit) we might have said 'movie' in UK, but 'movie show'?
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In NY, down town and uptown are relitive terms.
i grew up in the bronx, and all of Mannhattan was 'downtown' midtown is from about 23rd to 59th street, downtown starts below Canal, (in between is the village, ie, greenwich village, or (NY) SoHo (south of Houston)
we all so have cross town, and "east side" (cultured, and rich), or "west side" intelectual, and upper middle class. with many, many exceptions!
Lower east side -- and alphabet city, Triceca, DUMBO (down under the manhattan bridge overpass-- a area that is both in manhattan and brooklyn, all residental-- residential areas all have neighborhood names-- and they have "identities" People move into them because they want to be associated with those identites. (London i think is the same.)
downtown and and midtown, are business area names. i work in civic center, the north end of Downtown. there is a full mile more of downtown south of where i work.. but i am almost a half mile south of Canal-- the beginning of downtown! Other downtown areas include the now defunct WTC, Wall Street, South Ferry, the Seaport, Bowling Green.
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Many of these designations are interesting, quaint, and informative, unlike the abomination to be found in referring to right coast and left coast as descriptors for respectively the US east and west coasts.
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Being from the West, my favorite phrase to describe East is "toward the flat things" (Kansas, Nebraska) My favorite wagontrain response is "Anyone who calls Nebraska flat hasn't walked it." If you're going way East "The other side of the river." (Mississippi river) Me and mine tend not to say Back East. Don't know why. To me it sounds like Back Home, like you're from there. Maybe we've been Out West too long.
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Uptown, downtown are both used in New Zealand.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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>Uptown, downtown are both used in New Zealand. ...to mean the same thing? http://home.mn.rr.com/wwftd/
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To give you a definite answer, well, yes and no. Uptown is used in Auckland, and it literally means the higher part of the central city. There are buses which are signed "Uptown" and "Downtown". In Dunedin, where I was dragged up, "downtown" was literal. Most of the 'burbs are on hills while the central city is on the foreshore (and beyond it once the reclamation projects were finished).
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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In Buffalo, NY, you can go downtown, but not uptown. There just isn't that distinction here. Are there other large cities that have either one or the other, but not both?
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Detroit has a downtown (not much of one, unfortunately), but no uptown that I'm aware of. My mother's hometown of Mt. Carmel, PA, on the other hand, had an uptown but no downtown. Wonder how different places came to use the different terms to refer to the same part of their town, eg, business/shopping/entertainment district - while other places use both, referring to two distinct areas of the city. Suppose the answer's lost in the mists of time....
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Hyla, it is lovely to have you back. Louisville has downtown only.
CK, would you please elaborate on what a foreshore is? And, is there an aftshore?
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Cinci has a downtown, which is an appropriate name because it's down in a valley compared to the rest of the city. Then directly north across the boulevard that was once a canal lies riot central (Over the Rhine), certainly not uptown. Then north of that is, in succession, University of Cincinnati (home base), the zoo, and Xavier University.
So I guess Cinci doesn't have an uptown. I suppose there are areas that could be described as an uptown, but they have specific names. Mount Adams is a fairly high class village-like community to the east overlooking downtown. It's the home of the art museum, a contemporary theater and a nice park, but it's never called uptown.
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CK, would you please elaborate on what a foreshore is?
Oh, that's easy. we have those here in california. it's like, when you're like *totally positive about something. mmmhmm.
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caradea: augh! Oh, that was SO bad! 
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In Montréal, in English, we have a downtown but no uptown.
In Montréal, in French, the same region is know as centre ville...the centre of the city.
In Laval, the island city right beside Montréal, when you say you're going to the city it means you're going to Montréal; even though Laval is a city too.
Because Montréal is an island we also have "the South Shore" and "the North Shore" and each has it's specific character. The North Shore is considered rural. The South Shore is considered suburban.
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CK, would you please elaborate on what a foreshore is? And, is there an aftshore?
It's the land along the edge of the sea. Or harbour, in Dunedin's case. Since there was (and still is) a shortage of flat land, they flattened a hill and put the proceeds into the harbour. The shoreline is now half a mile further out than it used to be. The reclaimed land isn't what you'd call 100% stable, but needs must.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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I grew up in a town of 45,000 in central, New Jersey, (Plainfield), and there was a sizeable shopping district that we always referred to as downtown... Goin' downtown? Let's go downtown... etc.
"When you're alone/and life is making you lonely/ you can always go....downtown"
--Petula Clark
In New York City, however, (where I spent a lot of time as a kid, and then lived for awhile) there is a very definite uptown. (I'm surprised you missed this Helen). There are two posh areas adjacent to Central Park roughly from (streetwise) the 60's to the 90's called The Upper East Side and The Upper West Side (where John Lennon lived in the Dakota).
Uptown Girl/she's been livin' in her uptown world....And now she's looking for a downtown man/That's what I am....She's getting tired of her high class toys/And all her presents from her uptown boys.
--Billy Joel
However, the classic Uptown is north of 125th Street, Harlem, as in the flick Uptown Saturday Night
Atlantic City is built on the northern portion of a barrier island, Absecon Island, but the communities south of the city on the same island, Ventnor, Margate, and Longport, are referred to as downbeach. However, Atlantic City is never referred to as upbeach, the term just doesn't exist. Folks there just say "go into town" or "go into the city" or "go to Atlantic City."
foreshore
Intriguing, CapK...never heard that term on the East Coast of the US anywhere (from new England to the Florida Keys, and Gulf Coast). Does anybody use this term anywhere other than "Upunder" ?
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Any city in Michigan I've ever been in has a downtown, but I don't believe I've ever encountered an uptown.
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CK, would you please elaborate on what a foreshore is?
It's the land along the edge of the sea. ... Since there was (and still is) a shortage of flat land, they flattened a hill and put the proceeds into the harbour. The shoreline is now half a mile further out than it used to be
So, if you go swimming nekkid there, you are foreskinny dipping? [channelling TEd e]
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> CK, would you please elaborate on what a foreshore is?
Not necessarily the sea, and perhaps not necessarily a harbour......I'd simply change the definition to say the land at the edge of a body of water. Cliffs and seawalls don't count as foreshore though.
It's in common usage here in Perth - with respect to the Swan River, rarely the ocean - though both are correct.
...is there an aftshore?
No. But you come close with sailing terms - there's a lee shore (as opposed to a windward shore).
It's probably similar to "foredune" - the sloping face of a sand dune - there's no aftdune as I recall.
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Augh! I'm trying to just read and catch up, but I cannot resist this: stales, do you think I can find fame and a foredune?
Seriously, I've never heard that term before, Louisville not being exactly near a coastline. But--aren't ALL the sides of a sand dune sloping?
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Depends on the circumcises.
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It was late last night and I've jumbled my dune theory. Will now try to recover with grace. I might have a degree in Marine Science but darned if I can remember it - never used it! Where's Bean when you need her - HELP!!
The foredune is the first line of dunes on a beach - there is often a lagoon on the inland side - try the US Atlantic coast frinstance, or Baja California in Mexico. The foredune's role in life is to act as a reservoir of sand - to be utilised during storm surges. The more energetic wave action during storms attacks the foredune, eroding it. The beach changes profile during this process, becoming shallower and hence sapping the energy of the waves. They break increasingly further out to sea and thus inflict less damage at the top of the beach.
This is the principal reason that fixing the foredune (with buildings especially) is a BAD idea. No reservoir of sand, no attenuation of waves, no stopping the sea, crash/topple go the buildings.
Back to dune cross sections.....they are typically asymmetrical - steeper on the lee side and shallower on the windward side. A dune advances when sand blown up the windward face passes over the crest and tumbles down the lee face. When a dune (or ripple mark if the structure is formed underwater - with an obvious difference in scale of course), the strata parallel to the leeward side are known as the foreset beds (Dyslexia joke - "Run Foreset, run!!) - they are formed at the forefront of the dune and indicate its direction of movement. The flatter strata that develop on the windward side form the topset beds.
Bit more trivia: the angle that the face makes with the horizontal is the angle of repose. This is a function of grain size, sphericity, moisture content and specific gravity (good ol' SG - welcome back!!) It is typically 30 something degrees for many materials - 34 degrees for your standard garden variety beach sand I think. Bloody steep when you're on it!!
Edit: Had a quick squiz at the Dictionary - there's plenty of "fore" words that have been developed without an "aft" equivalent. Another that I thought of is fo'c'sle - never heard of an aftc'sle on a boat.
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This is the principal reason that fixing the foredune (with buildings especially) is a BAD idea.
It's not nice to fool Mother Nature!
Remind me to tell you sometime why tornadoes aren't attracted to trailer parks, trailer parks are attracted to tornadoes.
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Faldage - putting humour to one side, there is a one to one relationship between trailer parks and tornadoes.
For a foredune do its job in a storm/tornado, it cannot be encumbered by development. To minimise structural damage, insurance payouts and to protect the coastline (or riverbank - same deal), town planners always site trailer parks, recreation reserves and other "soft" landuse forms on foreshores. Their destruction is expected in the overall scheme of things. For sure!
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We ain' got us all that many foreshores here in the Finger Lakes. The Finger Lakes are glacier carved bodies of water with steep sides. The only dwellings on the lake shore are upscale summer homes; the access tends to be limited in the winter due to steep driveways getting iced in. When you get up into the flat lands above the lakes you get old (we're talking ~150 years as old; it's relative) farm structures in the areas that tornadoes don't tend to come through leaving the tornado alleys free. This is where the trailer parks go.
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Dear Faldage: As a quibble, the Finger Lakes as I understand it were not "carved" by the glaciers' ice, but rather eroded by their meltwater.
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not "carved" by the glaciers' ice, but rather eroded by their meltwater.
And they call *me a pedantic nitpicker (or is that nitpicking pedant?).
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