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#51996 01/09/02 03:18 PM
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As far as I know, the phrase "mit der linken Hand" is not in use exactly in the sense described here. It rather means that somebody achieved a result without devoting a special effort to it. Of course this concurs with "not focusing on what he was doing" but does not mean did not do this deliberately. You may say, e.g. somebody solved the Times Crossword Puzzle "mit der linken Hand".

Quite apart from that, I contend that far too much fuss is being made actually about "intellectual property" and its "theft". I wonder if any author (say, of fiction) has had the sales of his books demonstrably compromised because another one copied some of the stuff! The opposite effect is probably at least as common.
(The content of the above message may be copied even without the written consent of the author).


#51997 01/09/02 03:32 PM
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this concurs with "not focusing on what he was doing" but does not mean did not do this deliberately.

Sometimes not concentrating on what you're doing has to be very deliberate. It's so easy to get your mind distracted by what you're doing.


#51998 01/09/02 06:09 PM
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#51999 01/09/02 08:09 PM
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Interesting. I didn't get to this thread until now and I've just read the exchange of views between Keiva and MaxQ (with suitable interjections from the Ithacan ideologue) with interest. To me, it seems that the argument (using the legal definition) was actually about legal definitions.

While I agree that the principal victim must be the actual author of the plagiarised text in every case, it is hard to come to the conclusion that the reader is a victim if the plagiarised text actually contributes to the well-being of the reader. In that case, the only fraud being perpetrated is that of uncited authorship; the high quality of the overall information presented to the reader may well override the small cost to the reader of not knowing that some (or all) of the text was plagiarised.

I can cite at least one kind of example. I was reading a magazine the other day in which a number of tips on stain removal were presented. Because of the wording of one of them, I knew that it had come from another source, although I'm not altogether certain that that souce was original, either. However, the tips are good ones. I benefit from being able to use them while the cost to me of not knowing whether the columnist was, in fact, the author of the text I was reading is precisely zilch.

On the other hand, the example mentioned above relating to student plagiarism is also interesting. The victim there is really the plagiarist, no matter what the grade awarded, isn't it? Although there may be some slight disbenefit to the original author, I feel that the student doing the plagiarising is missing out most of all. Beside, most academics can spot outright plagiarism at 50 paces, can't they, even if they can't positively prove it.

Not arguing the legal definition (or supporting plagiarism, either), just commenting on outcomes ...

I also have to congratulate Maxy on organising his life and work flow well enough to assign Job numbers to his posts on the Board!



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#52000 01/09/02 10:37 PM
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I agree that ... must be ... in every case
On the contrary, CK, we agreed after some disharmony that circumstances alter cases.
You've been known to stir the pot. Perhaps you're now stotting to startle us a bit, and purring with pleasure. This is referred to as purring the stot.

most academics can spot outright plagiarism at 50 paces
Don't be so sure, CK. See post #41255, noting that no one had noticed a deliberate but unattributed quotation.


#52001 01/10/02 11:46 AM
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Beside, most academics can spot outright plagiarism at 50 paces, can't they, even if they can't positively prove it.

At one university in British Columbia, 47 students in one class were caught cheating on a paper. Because of the scale of the cheating, they aren't quite sure how to punish them. Amazing! Check out the news story at http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?category=Canada&story=/news/2002/01/07/sfu_plagiarism020107.


#52002 01/10/02 11:58 AM
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Thanks Bean. I guess the last paragraph of that article, which reads But Blackman says he's not convinced money needs to be spent on an Internet policing program. The plagiarism, he says, was discovered by faculty simply paying attention. confirms what I was saying about faculty being able to spot outright plagiarism.

I seemed to have no difficulty spotting it (and I certainly had no qualms about penalising it) when I was teaching. Obviously, you miss one or two smaller things, but usually the writing style is the dead giveaway ...



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#52003 01/10/02 05:37 PM
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faculty being able to spot outright plagiarism...usually the writing style is the dead giveaway

I can certainly imagine that the style of a 20-year-old student would differ markedly from that of a mature academic. But I wonder whether there would be obvious style-differences when the plagiarist is a mature adult? If not, plagiarism by an adult would be nowhere near as easy to spot.

I have no basis on which to answer that query; any thoughts?


#52004 01/10/02 07:58 PM
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Keiva, most of my students were mature adults. Most people can't write for peanuts at the best of times. When they are faced with writing a formal dissertation on some subject, their English becomes very stilted. Adult students are also usually ill-educated when they start. If, in the midst of some fairly turgid and convoluted rubbish a stream of well-written prose hits your eye, it's hard not to wonder how come ...

One of the worst offenders I struck was actually a former policeman! He'd be struggling along in his best writing-a-formal-report-on-a-burlary style, then suddenly he'd produce a couple of paras of well thought-out and well-written guff. Then it would be back to the formal police report style. I called him on it and he swore black was white that it was his own work. I found (coincidentally) the passage he'd cribbed a week or so later. When I faced him with it, he nearly broke down in tears.



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#52005 01/10/02 08:18 PM
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the root of this is that students are usually just being lazy and trying to meet a deadline with the least possible effort. someone who is willfully plagiarizing may actually put some effort into rewording and rewriting in his own style, stealing ideas more than words. this may only get caught by the original author, or someone who is steeped in these ideas.


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