Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
[white]You can take Salem out of the country,[/white]

There was a tune to that? You remember it? Poor girl. Go play in the snow.


#51822 01/05/02 12:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
This was also the origin of the phrase the monty always gets his man.


Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
J
old hand
Offline
old hand
J
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
Could it be that this is somehow related to the phrase: "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog."? It has the same kind of term exchange, but that might just be common rhetorical effect.


#51824 01/05/02 06:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Well, that just goes to show you, Faldage...you can take the monty out of the full, but you can't take the full out of the monty.


Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
B
old hand
Offline
old hand
B
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
Found this in the Dictionary of Newfoundland English:

[proverb] you can take a man out of the bay, but you can't take the bay out of the man
([1954] 1972 RUSSELL 22).
1974 Can Forum Mar, p. 25 Ted Russell, our leading local playwright, and a great
outharbourman himself, is fond of quoting a line from the eleventh epistle of Horace,
caelum non animum, mutant; qui trans mare current which he translates exactly in a
Newfoundland proverb: 'You can take the man out of the Bay, but you can't take the Bay
out of the man.'

Help with the actual Latin translation, anyone?


Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
caelum non animum, mutant; qui trans mare current

A little too literal, perhaps, but.

Heaven not spirit, they change; who run across the sea.

I might question the punctuation.



Post edit

Wait a minute, it starts making sense.

They change the sky (under which they are) but not their soul, those who travel across the sea. Or You can take the boy out of (wherever) but you can't take (wherever) out of the boy.

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
B
old hand
Offline
old hand
B
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
Very helpful, Faldage! I'd always wondered about that one. I'd never heard it before coming here, where it's often quoted as

"You can take the b'y out of the bay, but you can't take the bay out of the b'y."

since men from outside of St. John's are referred to as baymen (b'y is the way they say "boy" here). If you're from St. John's you're a Townie, and if you're from anywhere else, you're from "around the bay".

[edit]
Another thing I'd read in the same section was that a derogatory word used by townies for people from the outports was "baywop". I wonder why "wop" is a derogatory suffix? We all know it's also used on its own in a derogatory manner, as well. Anyone?

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
well, hello to your daughter, and please thank her for posing an intriguing question

i've no idea where the phrase comes from... the only thing it reminds me of is John Denver ... but i *do know the name of the rhetorical device employed, if anyone cares:

antimetabole. i s'pose it'd also be a chiasmus of sorts, but antimetabole specifically denotes a reversal of terms, whereas a chiasmic passage only necessarily employs a grammatical reversal.


Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
I wonder why "wop" is a derogatory suffix? We all know it's also used on its own in a derogatory manner, as well.

And supposedly comes from the Italian for handsome. Got many Portuguese up that way, Bean? I know there are in Northern Mass and parbly Maine, too. Big into ocean fishing.


Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
I wonder why "wop" is a derogatory suffix? We all know it's also used on its own in a derogatory manner, as well. Anyone?

Bean, somewhere on this board Helen of troy said it came from US Immigrations designation "WithOut Papers."


Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,283
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 442 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,510
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5