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[white]You can take Salem out of the country,[/white]

There was a tune to that? You remember it? Poor girl. Go play in the snow.


#51822 01/05/02 12:34 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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This was also the origin of the phrase the monty always gets his man.


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Could it be that this is somehow related to the phrase: "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog."? It has the same kind of term exchange, but that might just be common rhetorical effect.


#51824 01/05/02 06:22 PM
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Well, that just goes to show you, Faldage...you can take the monty out of the full, but you can't take the full out of the monty.


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Found this in the Dictionary of Newfoundland English:

[proverb] you can take a man out of the bay, but you can't take the bay out of the man
([1954] 1972 RUSSELL 22).
1974 Can Forum Mar, p. 25 Ted Russell, our leading local playwright, and a great
outharbourman himself, is fond of quoting a line from the eleventh epistle of Horace,
caelum non animum, mutant; qui trans mare current which he translates exactly in a
Newfoundland proverb: 'You can take the man out of the Bay, but you can't take the Bay
out of the man.'

Help with the actual Latin translation, anyone?


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caelum non animum, mutant; qui trans mare current

A little too literal, perhaps, but.

Heaven not spirit, they change; who run across the sea.

I might question the punctuation.



Post edit

Wait a minute, it starts making sense.

They change the sky (under which they are) but not their soul, those who travel across the sea. Or You can take the boy out of (wherever) but you can't take (wherever) out of the boy.

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Very helpful, Faldage! I'd always wondered about that one. I'd never heard it before coming here, where it's often quoted as

"You can take the b'y out of the bay, but you can't take the bay out of the b'y."

since men from outside of St. John's are referred to as baymen (b'y is the way they say "boy" here). If you're from St. John's you're a Townie, and if you're from anywhere else, you're from "around the bay".

[edit]
Another thing I'd read in the same section was that a derogatory word used by townies for people from the outports was "baywop". I wonder why "wop" is a derogatory suffix? We all know it's also used on its own in a derogatory manner, as well. Anyone?

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well, hello to your daughter, and please thank her for posing an intriguing question

i've no idea where the phrase comes from... the only thing it reminds me of is John Denver ... but i *do know the name of the rhetorical device employed, if anyone cares:

antimetabole. i s'pose it'd also be a chiasmus of sorts, but antimetabole specifically denotes a reversal of terms, whereas a chiasmic passage only necessarily employs a grammatical reversal.


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I wonder why "wop" is a derogatory suffix? We all know it's also used on its own in a derogatory manner, as well.

And supposedly comes from the Italian for handsome. Got many Portuguese up that way, Bean? I know there are in Northern Mass and parbly Maine, too. Big into ocean fishing.


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I wonder why "wop" is a derogatory suffix? We all know it's also used on its own in a derogatory manner, as well. Anyone?

Bean, somewhere on this board Helen of troy said it came from US Immigrations designation "WithOut Papers."


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