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In Michigan, a sandwich made of bread and cheese* and browned in a frying pan is called a grilled cheese sandwich, but I have heard people from other places refer to this as a toasted cheese sandwich. Putting aside the image that "toasted" conjures up of melted cheese dripping down all over the inside of a toaster ....
I am wondering: is it a toasted or grilled cheese sandwich where you are?
Also, the exterior sides of the bread are buttered before cooking a grilled cheese sandwich. Any chance that a toasted cheese sandwich is cooked dry?
*well, OK; I like mine with tomato slices, too.
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I grew up with the same distinctions, Sparteye. A grilled cheese sandwich was buttered on the outside and fried. A toasted cheese sandwich was dry on the outside and was heated under the top burner in the oven (whichwe also call grilling come to think of it.)
But you must bear in mind that I had one parent from the Twin Cities and the other from the "little" Twin Cities. Of course, being from Michigan, you know the names of the latter, don't you???
TEd
TEd
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Sault Saint Marie and Mackinac City? Kalamazoo and Portage?
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Benton Harbor and St. Joseph, MI. [smug look e]
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Lansing and East Lansing?
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Howye
Glad ta be of assistince here. A grill is a seperate part of a cooker, under the hob. Ya can make toast here or even a toasted sandwich.
Ya don't put the sandwich in a toaster - but there are special toasters ya can get ta specially make toasted sandwiches. These are called toasted sandwich makers. (I won't go on about all the lovely fillens ya can put in them).
Now, I don't mean ta be pendantic, but surely the sandwich ya describes above is a fried sandwich? Do ya put oil on the pan? Is that not called French bread? Have ya no respect fer yer heart?
Oftentimes, where I come from, we grill meat etc instead of fryen it, as the fat runs away (not literary - though some may find it poetic) and it is much healthier.
Hope this answers yer query.
As always Gallant Ted
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We always called it a grilled cheese sandwich whether we fried it in butter or broiled it in the oven. And I've always seen it billed in the menu as a grilled cheese sandwich in all the parts I've lived or travelled frequently...Boston to Florida, New York City, Philly, east to Pittsburgh, and through the South to San Antonio. We do have a favorite sandwich in our immediate locale here on the tip of the South Jersey shore called a toasted hoagie. That's a hoagie (submarine, grinder) put into a pizza oven until the cheese melts and the roll is slightly crunchy...delicious! Especially on those old "munchie" nights, if you know what I mean.  Anybody else have these?
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Actually Menominee MI and Marinette WI
I'm outta here!!!
to the tune of
I'm leavin' on a jet plane
TEd
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We don't have toasted cheese sandwiches here in DeWitt. It's all grilled cheese, no matter how you fix 'em.
Toasted cheese would be a slice of cheese on a single slice of bread and prepared under a broiler--or something along those lines.
Warning! Recipe, but a modest one, comin' your way!
I'm with whomever above suggested that tomato slice. If you grill the tomato in between the slices of bread and cheese, ooh, la, la, that IS the best possible grilled cheese!
Does anybody remember Wonder Bread?
Bread regards,
WonderWord, who don't eat bread no mo'! Sugar Buster, I!
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The "Twin Cities" of Southwest Michigan - Benton Harbor and St. Joseph - are located among a cluster of communities on the eastern shore of Lake Michigan.From: http://www.whirlpoolcorp.com/whr/careers/location.html
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WW-- commented Does anybody remember Wonder Bread?
Wonder Bread being a classic example of the fluff made of flour and yeast that passed for bread in many parts of US. it was a light and fluffy as angel food cake.. with even less flavor.. a 1 lb. loaf was the size of a football field.. and a 98 lb weekly, could mash is flatter than a pancake in no time flat.
Bread, like language, rapidly becomes localized.. my parent hated wonderbread, and when we kids nagged and cried, and they finaly bought it.. we didn't like it either.. we had already learned to like real bread..
the same thing happened with my own children.. i baked bread, often white (the Cornel Cooperative Extention enriched loaf, known as Cornell bread--Hi Faldage!) and my son, now a parent, bakes bread for his family!
bread is a flexable (as food) and as a word..
break bread -- eat
have bread -- (have) money
white bread-- ordinary, bordering on boring
shortnin' bread -- a quickie!
others?
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Dear of Troy:
Here's another:
Best thing since sliced bread
I like thinking about the breadfruit tree, by the way. Never saw one. Know nothing about them. But, oh, the images those two words evoke!
Bread regards,
WordWaxing
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And I thought they were Detroit and South Lyon. Sigh, another childhood dream smashed.
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Gor those who seem to think frying and grilling are the same thing I challenge them to do eggs over easy on a grill.
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There was, back in Arizona in the 70s, an abomination that actually® sold under the brand name Balloon® Bread. Puffy Loaf®, on the other hand, was the creation of some science fiction writer.
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Wonder Bread (Builds Strong Bodies Twelve Ways; look for the blue, yellow and red balloons) is still made. I saw some at the store three days ago.
FOOD ENTRY: Wonder Bread is an extreme example of the commercial bread-manufacturing technique in the US of beating air into the bread dough to make it rise rather than permitting the yeast to ferment. The air-rise/yeast-rise distinction is a major reason that US bread is such crap when compared to European breads.
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Dear Sparteye,
You wrote:
Wonder Bread is an extreme example of the commercial bread-manufacturing technique in the US of beating air into the bread dough to make it rise rather than permitting the yeast to ferment.
So, was there yeast in Wonder Bread (or currently in Wonder Bread)? All air rising? A second cousin of cotton candy? Or is there unfulfilled yeast in Wonder Bread?
That's plumb astonishing (or plum astonishing--don't know whether we solved that question today here).
Best regards,
WW
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In Colonial times, I doubt that there was any such thing as white bread. People got very tired of coarse bread, and when white bread first became available, few could afford it. So when light white bread became available, almost everybody wanted it, for no better reason than that it was something new. When I was a boy a chemical was used to bleach flour. One of the best things President Truman did was to make that illegal.
The wonderful thing about bread is the large number of varieties. I will never get tired of enjoying the aroma of home-made bread just out of the oven. I used to make dough in machine, but always baked it in the oven.
I can sympathize with German POW's in WWII who revolted, risking being shot, because they so dispised American bread.
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If any of you here travel in Mexico, pleeeease [ Pleiades] don't buy pan Bimbo. [ bimetallic] It's terrible, worse than Wonder Bread. The pan integral (whole wheat) looks like it was made with the sweepings from the lumber yard. Most stores sell pan de bolia [ Bolivia] or pan blanco, [ bland] individual sized french-style [ frenetic] bread. Some of those are divine. If you can find a bakery that uses a good recipe, a brick oven and wood to heat it, you'll be in bread heaven whether your cheese sandwich be grilled, toasted, or slapped together in the park (remember to wash that tomato thoroughly). [BTW when I spell checked this, AEnigma decided to erase it. Is AEnigma related to HAL? Or is she/he/it just demonstrating editorial power?  ]
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Pan Bimbo? Is that what Barbie eats fer her supper?
GT
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While I share the general opinion of Wonder Bread, I have to report that we learned of a good use for the stuff.
John Shields, a Maryland chef, who has a show on Public TV about Maryland food, demonstrated how to make crabcakes using Wonder Bread. Nearly every crabcake recipe includes bread in some form, either cubes of fresh bread or crumbs or maybe cracker meal, not too much for a really good crabcake, but you have to have some to hold it together; otherwise it will fall apart while being cooked.
John's method calls for the use of Wonder Bread, fresh, in fairly large cubes (about 3/4 inch), perhaps a half dozen in a large (tennis-ball size) crabcake. The wondrous thing is that when the crabcake is cooked, either by frying or broiling, the breadcubes do perform their function of holding the cake together, but they disappear! They melt, or something, in the cooking process. You wind up with an intact crabcake which doesn't appear or taste like it has any bread at all in it, just pure crabmeat and flavorings. Best recipe we have ever used. We buy a loaf of Wonder Bread, use maybe 3 slices for crabcakes and throw the rest away.
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Well, crab cakes it is then! And, as Sparteye has clearly noted and quoted:
(Builds Strong Bodies Twelve Ways; look for the blue, yellow and red balloons)
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when I spell checked this, AEnigma decided to erase it.
I don't think it's Ænigma, I think it's your browser. Ours (Netscape 4.77) is doing it all the time. I've had it do the same when going into preview; if I want to change something before posting sometimes I'll go back and there's nothing there. I copy onto the clipboard before I do something like that that might wipe it.
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sometimes I'll go back and there's nothing there.
Another solution is to retrieve what's lost by hitting the browser's "forward" button.
The advantage is that you don't have to do it every time (only when you suffer a wipe-out); but the disadvantage is that you'll get, and have to manually correct, whatever changes the spell-check or preview made to your text. Seems to me faldage's method is better, unless you only have this problem once in a great while.
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So, was there yeast in Wonder Bread (or currently in Wonder Bread)? All air rising? A second cousin of cotton candy? Or is there unfulfilled yeast in Wonder Bread?I think you'll find yeast listed as an ingredient. The crucial point is that the manufacturer does not permit the bread dough the time to let the yeast reproduce and rise the bread; rather, it beats the dough to integrate air into it. And Dr Bill, whatever bleaching chemical was outlawed did not preclude the bleaching of flour. A lot -- most? -- white flours in the US are chemically bleached. One flour which is not is Robin Hood. http://www.robinhood.ca/
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white flour has been around for ages--at least since the middle ages. it was, up until very recently, very expensive.
first you had to hull the wheat, and remove the germ. then you ground the endosperm of the wheat, and aged the flour. it would naturally whiten with age.
whole wheat flour, has the hull, and the germ. the wheat germ adds nutrients, but it also is rich in oil. the oil goes rancid fairly quicly, so if you age whole wheat flour, it goes bad. most commercial whole wheat flours suggest you refridgerate or freeze flour that will not be use in a month-- and most have some preseratives to help keep the natural oil from going rancid.
stone ground flours keep a bit longer, since the stone never get as hot at the the steel grinder in modern high speed mills. keeping the wheat germ oil cool, helps preserve it.
bleaching flour can be done with chemicals (fumes) or with time, or.. (i forget.. Light?) in any case "unbleached" flours haven't been aged to whiteness, they use the third method. it doesn't include any thing (chemical, additive), but does get the flour whiter faster than aging. since there is nothing added, the process for legal purposes, is considered "Unbleached".
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For the best baking, King Arthur Flour.
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It may be the browser, but it's not unique to Nutscrape. Exploser does it too. Only happens on the Board, so I think it's yet another quirk of the system. But hey, let's not complain. Anu provides it all at exactly the right price.
But it would be nice if he was prepared to entertain offers of hosting from other providers, I guess. Not that I know he isn't prepared to do this. Improved access and reliability would be great, and would be worth something (monetarily) to me, at least.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Me comfused too. It appears from your link there is a Robin Hood flour. In New England King Arthur flour is the favorite. It is/was a family company and they mail world wide to fussy bakers/confectioners. If you think that's confusing ... we have a local baker with the last name Flour and his shop is "Sweet Flours" .. Brioche and butter anyone? Oh, well! http://ww3.kingarthurflour.com/cgibin/start/ahome/main.html
For tons more information on this company (founded 1790) in Vermont just Google "King Arthur Flour"
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Just this morning I was thinking that with the leftover Provolone and buttery wheat bread in the fridge I would have myself a lovely "toasted cheese sandwich" tomorrow. But I thought it in a very British accent -- thereby proving that calling a grilled cheese sandwich "toasted" is yet another British abberation.  Whitman noted that: We do have a favorite sandwich in our immediate locale here on the tip of the South Jersey shore called a toasted hoagie.There are many incorrect names for the wonderful combination of a long loaf of bread filled with various things, but to my mind, the only correct terminology is thus: a long loaf of bread filled with various things is a submarine sandwich or simply a sub. When you pass a sub through the oven to toast the bread and warm up (and melt, when appropriate) the fillings you have created a grinder. At the best pizza joints you can ask for "an Italian sub and an Italian grinder" and get two slightly different sandwiches. Hoagie me no hoagies and hero me no heroes, please.
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sorry-- but i strongly disagree! there are local names for local foods.. and they are all slightly different..
just as we have slight varients in language, we have varients in food-- and different words in different regions for what is essential, the same.. but not quite.
if nothing else, the bread is different-- CK-- what did you think of the bread in US? except for the coast-- and even some places on east coast -- american bread is crap-- all fluff! this is not a food board-- and this topic is way too tempting to turn into a food topic..
meanwhile, on back in the old country, i think they are called "plough man's"..
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I quipped: Hoagie me no hoagies and hero me no heroes, please.
of troy said: sorry-- but i strongly disagree! there are local names for local foods.. and they are all slightly different..
Just to clarify, I was indeed joking when I claimed that the only "correct" words for what I propose we now refer to as DNLBSs (Differently-Named Long-Bread Sandwiches) were Sub and Grinder. In fact, I realize that any names for those sandwiches are local at best and positively isolationist (down to the neighborhood or individual pizza place) in some places. I also relish (mmm.... relish) the vast variety of both foods and the names for those foods we have in the USA. And unlike DNLBSs, sometimes the name stays the same while the food item changes -- c.f. Hot Dogs: steamed with mustard and relish at Fenway Park (Boston) but grilled and covered with the contents of a medium-sized garden (lettuce?!) at Wrigley Field (Chicago).
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in NY-- they are "dirty water dogs" sold by street venders, (who are regularly inspected by Health Dept.) and usually come up cleaner than most "established" restaraunts. but they are still dirty water dogs.
they come with mustard (golden yellow, or spicy dark -- vendors choice) sourkraut, and or onions in hot red chili sauce. pickle relish is available, too. most people only get one or two condiments, but no extra charge for relish, kraut, onions and mustard.
they used to offer sides of knishes, but the self same Dept of Health decided they couldn't keep them hot enough to keep them safe.. but you still can get a pretzle, as salty as you like, plain or with mustard.
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Brit-speaking friend:
"We had pudding after Christmas dinner.
It was made at the end of September."
Me, totally aghast:
"September! But, but, doesn't it spoil?!"
BSF, in dignified outrage:
"No--it matures."
Me:
"But pudding is made with milk.
How do you keep it from spoiling?"
BSF:
"No, no--not that kind of pudding!
I mean pudding: you know, anything sweet that you eat after a meal."
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This is definitely toasted. No. Grilled. Whatever. Two tortillas (corn or flour), melty cheese (queso Chihuahua, monterrey jack, mozzerella, gruyere, you get the picture) and a medium hot pan or comál, no butter, oil or grease of any kind. Let the tortillas get good and crusty but not burned, just like a grilled cheese. Corn tortillas are best salted after toasting. My first recipe post. running for cover-e Serve with salsa. Or not. post-edit Stating the obvious, here. Put the cheese between the tortillas.
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Two tortillas (corn or flour), ....
Oh geez, here we go with the recipes again. Run for cover you should!
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it beats the dough to integrate air
into it.So, is buttered Wonder Bread the preferred stuff to strap to the cat's back, being so light? Oh - long since dead thread. Sorry....
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Two tortillas (corn or flour), melty cheese (queso Chihuahua, monterrey jack, mozzerella, gruyere, you get the picture) and a medium hot pan or...
Commonly known as quesadillas. I useta use the oven (350° for 5 or 7 minutes depending on did you defrost the spinach), but me'n the ASp got a quesadilla maker for Christmas from her mom. It's totally unnecessary but lots o fun. And you get quesadillas in little sealed around the edges sections. Makes them a lot easier to cut up witout spilling no filling all over the place. Shrooms are real good in these thangs but I ain' telling y'all nothin bout my sekert ingrediment.
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Shrooms are real good in these thangs but I ain' telling y'all nothin bout my sekert ingrediment.
Et tu, Brute?
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Jeez, Faldage. I know they are commonly called quesadillas but I'm from Michigan so I had to give Sparteye her props.  Do you know what a sincronizado is?
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[pause in running] If you decide to throw vegetables at me, I like the tomatoes on the vine best  . Maybe a carrot[making a snowman here]. I might be able to catch a cabbage more easily.
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et tu, brute
no ASpersions, please. Let she who is without sin cast the first groan.
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Maybe a carrot[making a snowman here].
consuelo, can I send you some snow to help with that snowman?
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Y'all're such a delight. Go ahead. Recipe away. I'm resolved be magnanimous about the whole thang, at least until another irrepressible harrumph wells up. [still chuckling at ASpersions-e]
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Geoff,
I, for one, miss the cat. There was a lot of imaginative energy there. And above the wool, endlessly whirling. Has made me hungry for Chicken Tikka Masala ever since.
Still don't understand those amber rods, however. LabDub needs to do a bit more research on that!
But back to the cat. Anything that builds bodies 12 ways called WONDER BREAD must be the bread that's strapped to that madly turning cat. We approach, step by step, the secret to infinite energy, if only the physicists would pause long enough to listen.
Best regards,
LabDub
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Go ahead. Recipe away.
Nay nay, please continue to combat the bane of recipes. That trend must be Asphixiated If we keep traveling down that road to perdition, it will certainly not be ASphalt.
Don't encorrige me; I'm incorrigible.
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You are both incorrigible and encourgeable, my dear Keiva.
Ad astra per ASpera!
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Ad astra per ASpera!
Is it coincidental that this is the state motto of KansASp?
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Is it coincidental that this is the state motto of KansASp?
Purely. For as you know, we aren't there anymore, Toto.
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
KansASp? as you know, we aren't there anymore yeahbut, we do have a personal stake in this, for anu tells us, "We'll all be Kansas By and by." So it's good to know I have a friend so well-connected there. http://wordsmith.org/awad/archives/1201 Dec. 17, 2001
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