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Re: tsunami #4757
08/03/00 01:21 AM
08/03/00 01:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
Avy Offline
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Avy  Offline
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> jangal, wasteland, which comes itself from the Sanskrit word Jangala, meaning wild or arid.

Gosh that is news to me. I got to go check that up. Jungle is derived from a sanskrit word as all the north Indian languages are (South indian languages are derived from Tamil). But I really don't think the word originally meant wild or arid. But I could be wrong ...

jun·gle ( jungÆgÃl), n.
1. a wild land overgrown with dense vegetation, often nearly impenetrable, esp. tropical vegetation or a tropical rain forest.
2. a tract of such land.
3. a wilderness of dense overgrowth; a piece of swampy, thickset forestland.
4. any confused mass or agglomeration of objects; jumble: a jungle of wrecked automobiles.
5. something that baffles or perplexes; maze: a jungle of legal double-talk.
6. a scene of violence and struggle for survival: The neglected prison was a jungle for its inmates.
7. a place or situation of ruthless competition: the advertising jungle.
8. Slang. a hobo camp.
[1770–80; < Hindi jangal < Pali, Prakrit jangala rough, waterless place]

Ted you're right! Well - one lives and learns.

In this defination it says that the original word comes from languages Pali and Prakrit - them - I know a bit about. They were people's languages round about the time of Gautam Buddha and earlier. Sanskrit was always the language of learned and not spoken by the common people. And so the language Buddha preached in was Pali. Of course nobody speaks Pali in India anymore. And sankrit is also not spoken by the common people - although it not as dead as Pali. India has 15 major languages and some 700 or more dialects. (numbers off the top of my head, subject to correction) You have to be multi-lingual in India to get by. Almost every Indian knows at least 3 languages. I really don't know how a waterless place got to mean what it does (a forest) even in Hindi. Maybe the chief Anu would know?



Re: tsunami #4758
08/03/00 02:24 AM
08/03/00 02:24 AM
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Avy Offline
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Avy  Offline
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>(South indian languages are derived from Tamil).
That's not right : It is thought that the Dravidian languages are derived
from a language spoken in India prior to the invasion of the Aryans c.1500 B.C.


Re: okay #4759
08/03/00 03:18 PM
08/03/00 03:18 PM
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william Offline OP
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rubrick,
moshi moshi is from very polite japanese.
hello, i think, was very casual, and became the common greeting after it was chosen as the telephone word. is that right?


free #4760
08/09/00 04:54 PM
08/09/00 04:54 PM
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william Offline OP
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there is an institution in japan called "nomihodai".
this means "all you can drink". it's very popular with young people. you pay usually about 20 bucks and get an hour or two of continuous beer, cocktails, whisky, nihonshu etc. the cocktails are just syrup mixes with soda of course. but you used to get a full bottle of whisky if you asked - recently just one glass at a time.
the interesting point is that it is often written as "free drink" in english. while i can understand free drink as the general "nomihodai" concept, when it comes to the menu that says "free drinks" it starts to sound like i don't have to pay at all.


Re: jungle #4761
08/10/00 06:09 AM
08/10/00 06:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027
Switzerland
wsieber Offline
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> I really don't know how a waterless place got to mean what it does (a forest).
If we place ourselves back in history to a time where the main signification of "nature" was "the enemy of man", the menacing surroundings, I think we can understand this. Jungle was simply the place where you could not go. It mattered little if this was because of lack of water or impenetrable and useless brush. Nowadays of course, we want to protect the jungle from becoming arid wasteland, and long for the lost paradise called "nature". Words arise from OUR INTERACTION, as humans, with the outside world.


Re: tsunami #4762
08/10/00 09:24 AM
08/10/00 09:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 167
Australia
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johnjohn Offline
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What exactly is the difference between Hindi and Hindustani? i have recently seen them used in apposition to each other.
JJ


Re: tsunami #4763
08/10/00 11:57 AM
08/10/00 11:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Marion NC
TEd Remington Offline
Carpal Tunnel
TEd Remington  Offline
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>What exactly is the difference between Hindi and Hindustani?

Hindi is a group of vernacular Indic dialects as well as the literary and official language of Northern India.

Hindustani is a group of Indic dialects that includes Urdu and Hindi. Also a native of Hindustan.

Hindustan was a warning that Oliver frequently shouted to his partner.



TEd
Re: jungle #4764
08/11/00 05:02 AM
08/11/00 05:02 AM
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Avy Offline
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Wseiber > "Words arise from OUR INTERACTION, as humans, with the outside world." Absolutely.

JJ > They are not one and the same. Hindi is what we speak in India, and Hindustani was what the hijackers who hijacked an Air India flight recently, spoke amongst each other. That is all I knew which was a shame so Il'dIU. The URL which talks of this at length is : http://adaniel.tripod.com/hindustani.htm The gist is this : Hindustani was a language of the subcontinent before Partition and originating from the time of the Moghuls (Muslim invaders from present day Afghanistan). After partition the language was split into two languages Hindi and Urdu. Hindi leaning more toward Sanskrit and Urdu towards Persian. Hindi became the language of India and Urdu of Pakistan. Apparently Hindustani has survived in some parts in and around the Kashmir Valley. It could be the original Hindustani or some form of it but it is neither pure Urdu or Hindi. And that is what the hijackers spoke.

Ted > "Hindustan was a warning that Oliver frequently shouted to his partner." Huh..?




Re: jungle #4765
08/11/00 05:31 PM
08/11/00 05:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Marion NC
TEd Remington Offline
Carpal Tunnel
TEd Remington  Offline
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>>Ted > "Hindustan was a warning that Oliver frequently shouted to his partner." Huh..?

"(Be)hind you, Stan!"



TEd
Re: tsunami #4766
08/13/00 11:09 AM
08/13/00 11:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
Sydney Australia
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Bridget Offline
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Sydney Australia
>tsu can also mean cliff and shore< (as well as harbour)

The character used for 'tsu' in Japanese is 'jin' in Chinese and means 'ford', as in a place you cross the river or a place of shallow water.
I've always thought of tsunami as being 'ford and wave' - because all the water in front of the wave is sucked up into it.

This makes more sense to me than any of the other meanings, although I can't find 'tsu' as a ford in my Japanese dicitonaries either, William. Do you know someone with a classical Japanese background you could ask?


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