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Carpal Tunnel
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Ahem, for some of us, when it comes to gambling, never means, never, not ever, under no circumstances whatsoever. oh, I agree absotively, max. but I gave in one time, under the circumstances outlined above, just so I could tell everyone the next time that I had learned my lesson!  I also have to admit to the occasional poker game, but (for me) that's not a game of chance. [  to W. C. Fields]
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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yes, Max has a point. some people don't gamble for religious reasons and many other reasons. Others like me, don't buy lottery tickets even when the jackpot is to 15 or 20 million.. because we are too cheap.
what is the saying? Lottery are special tax for those who are to stupid to learn math? or something of that sort...
but lets get back to --whence sweepstake? and while we at it, why are some races steeplechases, (i know they are demanding overland races with lots of jumps, and puddles, and all sort of other interesting obsticles.. but why a steeplechase?) and the winnings? why are the winning a jackpot ?
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Joined: Nov 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Sweepstake means just that. The winner sweeps (takes) the entire stake. I think the word is probably of Irish provenance, but I don't know why I think that. Probably wrong!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
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I figured that it translated to all the stakes being "swept". This implied to me however a "winner take all" outcome which doesn't seem to be the practice in reality. So whence the practice of also paying 2nd, 3rd and last place? Been a tradition as long as I can remember.
Thanks for the comments all - been fun so far on this thread.
stales
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Carpal Tunnel
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Well stales, did you win? Has the stales household had to become tax exiles?
Bingley
Bingley
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old hand
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OP
old hand
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Number 2 son (10yo) cleaned up. He got second place with "Give The Slip" (a Saudi nag) in the $2.50 sweep, picked up $18. No word on whether he intends to compensate his folks for their $2.50 outlay on his behalf!!
stales
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Carpal Tunnel
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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can anybody tell about the term "sweepstake" - origins, geographic usage etc.
It is generally conceded that the original sense was “winner take all,” that is, that the person winning the race or game “swept” all the “stakes” into his own pocket. Later the winnings did not accrue entirely to a single winner, ... and still later the term became applied to the event occasioning the wagering ... rather than to the disposition of the spoils. Curiously, though, Sweepstake (also spelled Swepestake) is recorded as used as a ship’s name at least a hundred years earlier than its first recorded use in the gambling sense, but without any sound clue as to the reason for its choice as a nautical term.
-- from Horsefeathers & Other Curious Words, Charles Funk
Accord, Origins A Short Etymological Dictionary of Modern English , Eric Partridge, and Etymological Dictionary, W W Skeat, who also notes: sweep-stake, the same as swoop-stake, sweeping off all the stakes at once, Hamlet, iv. 5. 142, whence sweep-stakes, sb., the whole money staked at a horse-race that can be won or swept up at once.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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these so-called geniuses have all this great information on hand and then they totally miss the boat (you should pardon the expression). take a look at their source material:
†1. One who ‘sweeps’, or takes the whole of, the stakes in a game, etc.; usually fig. one who takes or appropriates everything; from the 15th to the 17th cent. commonly used as a ship's name.
a 1495 Naval Acc. Hen. VII (1896) 159 The Kinges Bark called the Swepestake. 1520 in Lett. & Papers Hen. VIII, III. ii. 1541 To John Hopton, wages of the Swepestake row~barge, and for rigging other ships, 100 l. 1527 Will of J. Piper (Somerset Ho.), My shipp called the Mary Swepestake. 1540 Palsgr. Acolastus biv, Pantolabus signifieth omnia capiens, one that is a swepestake and all is fysshe that commeth to the nette with hym. 1545 in 12th Rep. Hist. MSS. Comm. App. vii. 8 The second rancke of the vaunt~ward:—The greate gallye. The Swepstacke. 1593 G. Harvey Pierce's Super. Wks. (Grosart) II. 111 He that will exploit wonderments, and karrie all before him, like a sweepe-stake. 1593 in J. Morris Troubles Cath. Forefathers (1877) 163 The gleaners, as sweepstakes, who raked up without scruple all that whereof the other made some conscience. 1595 Roxb. Ball. (1889) VI. 409 The George-Aloe and the Sweep-stake too. 1632 Brome Novella ii. ii, Shee will runne on the faster.+ She will prove the only Sweep-stake In all the city. 1687 Miege Gt. Fr. Dict., Sweep-stake, He that gets all the Stakes, Celui (ou Celle) qui tire l'Enjeu.
so, one asks oneself: how did we get from a ship's name to winner take all? here's my theory (and this theory is mine, I own it and just made it up):
Pantolabus signifieth omnia capiens, one that is a swepestake and all is fysshe that commeth to the nette with hym.
omnia capiens means roughly to take everything... there is another way to divide this word sweep|stake and that is sweeps|take... and here I submit the 'take' stands for the 'catch' -- sweeps the catch into the hold. well, there it is. that's my theory, and it's mine.
-anne elke
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