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#46387 11/01/01 03:47 AM
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Jackie Offline OP
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I'm not sure what this phrase in this paragraph from "Call of the Wild" refers to.
His father, Elmo, a huge St. Bernard, had been the Judge’s inseparable companion, and Buck bid fair to follow in the way of his father. He was not so large—he weighed only one hundred and forty pounds—for his mother, Shep, had been a Scotch shepherd dog. Nevertheless, one hundred and forty pounds, to which was added the dignity that comes of good living and universal respect, enabled him to carry himself in right royal fashion. During the four years since his puppy-hood he had lived the life of a sated aristocrat; he had a fine pride in himself, was ever a trifle egotistical, as country gentlemen sometimes become because of their insular situation. But he had saved himself by not becoming a mere pampered house-dog. Hunting and kindred outdoor delights had kept down the fat and hardened his muscles; and to him, as to the cold-tubbing races, the love of water had been a tonic and a health preserver.



#46388 11/01/01 04:15 AM
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At a guess, having baths in cold water.

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#46389 11/01/01 04:50 AM
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Had a poke around. The best definition of cold-tubbing I could find refers to it as the immersion of fever victims in cold water to bring their temperature down. You could extrapolate from that to forceful immersion in cold water. And since we are dealing with animals, perhaps London was referring to a sheep-dip? Dunno. I remember wondering about the word when I read Call of the Wild dunnamany years ago.



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#46390 11/01/01 10:02 AM
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I believe Bingley has it right. There was a movement in England, probably starting in the late C19, possibly a bit earlier, that promoted healthy living. Their regimen included not over-eating or drinking too much (or abstaining altogether from alcohol, for extremists) wearing loose clothing that allowed air to circulate, and taking cold baths each morning, whatever the ambient temperature. If these cold baths could be taken in the river, lake or sea, so much the better, but a plunge into the bath tub at home was a good substitute. It was particularly recommended for young men who were suffering from the less morally respectable symptoms associated with the onset of puberty. (The time when a young man says good-bye to his boyhood and looks forward to his adultery) thanks for that one, Jackie!!

The bath was commonly referred to as, "the tub", so "cold-tubbing" becomes immediately comprehensible (in meaning, if not in practice!)
The "cold-tubbing races" are, I presume, the morally-superior Anglo-Saxons, as compared to the degenerate Latin races. (Whoops - time I came back into the C21)


#46391 11/01/01 01:13 PM
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#46392 11/01/01 02:26 PM
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My father told me my great-grandfather used to go out to horsetrough in winter mornings, chop the ice out of it, fill a pail and empty it over himself. "Cleanliness is next to godliness, and order is Heaven's first law." The facilities of heating enough water for a bath were just too primitive and time consuming.


#46393 11/02/01 03:56 AM
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Dr. Bill notes, the facilities for heating enough water for a bath were just too primitive and time consuming.
The Romans had very good facilities for heating water, and very good, even palatial, baths. But from the fall of the Roman Empire up to the end of the 19th century (and well into the 20th in rural and city slum areas) bathing, in Europe and, later, in America, was rare for exactly the reasons assigned.

I once attended a history lecture where it was revealed that a study of exchequer documents revealed the fact that in 1214 King John had exactly 4 baths. (This was at least 3 more than common people had in a lifetime.) If you wonder how this could be determined, it seems that he had to pay a fee to some court official who had the royal warrant or something on baths and there was a record in the Exchequer.


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#46395 11/02/01 12:44 PM
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Wordwind, I apologize in advance, but I have to say this--your post spurred me on to think of "rub a dub dub".
[running for my life e]
============================================================

Bob's post also got me to thinking, about how words that are apt descriptors in one sense can be used in another context, sometimes losing their appropriateness. He said that Roman baths were "palatial". What did Roman emporers live in? Emporiums?

For some decades now, the word Cadillac has been used in the U.S. to mean top-of-the-line anything, because of the car, which is made by the General Motors company. In Reader's Digest some years ago, there was a tale of a salesman who was attempting to sell an engine component to the Ford Co. He told them his product was "the Cadillac of components". Now--the Ford Co. makes Ford vehicles--period.
He didn't get the sale.


#46396 11/02/01 03:11 PM
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Maybe they just couldn't af ford it?


#46397 11/02/01 05:23 PM
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G-r-o-a-n!


#46398 11/02/01 05:47 PM
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Rub-a-dub dub, Three dubs in a tub: And who do you think they be The butcher, the baker, the candle-stick maker,, Cast them out, Knaves all three.

I could never figure out why those three were calumnized.


#46399 11/02/01 09:57 PM
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BYB advised that I once attended a history lecture where it was revealed that a study of exchequer documents revealed the fact that in 1214 King John had exactly 4 baths. (This was at least 3 more than common people had in a lifetime.) If you wonder how this could be determined, it seems that he had to pay a fee to some court official who had the royal warrant or something on baths and there was a record in the Exchequer.

Well, they do say that cleanliness is next to godliness, and no would could ever accuse Richard's little brother Johnny of that.

Besides, he took a cold bath at Runnymede the next year.



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#46400 11/03/01 12:09 AM
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Besides, he took a cold bath at Runnymede the next year.
Hey, I got that! Thank you, m'dear!



#46401 11/03/01 08:54 AM
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And of course he lost the Crown Jewels in the Wash.


#46402 11/03/01 02:26 PM
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...he lost the Crown Jewels in the Wash.
Nicholas, that one I don't get. (hint.)






#46403 11/03/01 02:38 PM
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1.King John The Wash shakespeare scholars shakespeare message ...
... a long time ago) that King John lost the Crown Jewels of his time after some bone-head
move in a body of water called the Wash or something like that. Can one ...
http://starbuck.com/shakespeare/KingJohnhall/messages/20.html

:Unfortunately the above was a question that apparently never got an answer.


#46404 11/03/01 02:56 PM
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"I understand that in Scandanavian countries, plunges into ice cold pools and streams are
believed to be highly beneficial to health. A dog that enjoyed such hypothetically healthful
plunges would be a corker!"

Dear WW: In Scandinavia and many other places, a sauna, hot steam bath precedes the cold dip.
I saw on Internet a site about a place on North Sea English coast of a place called Scara Brae, where they have found a sauna used in 8000 BC. They heated rocks in fire, and threw them into water to make steam in an enclosed space before skinny dipping in ocean. It is said to be a very pleasant experience. I doubt my cardiovascular system could tolerate it.

All Newfoundland dogs joyously go into winter ocean to rescue people.. And the St.Bernards were born with a cask of schnapps lsuspended from their collar to help revive victims they rescued in the Alps.


#46405 11/03/01 03:06 PM
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October 1215 a caravan of King John of England attempted to cross the sands of The Wash. The caravan carried a large amount of the King's treasure and was trapped by an incoming tide and a descending current from the River Nene. All was lost. The journey in question lies between Kings Lynn and Long Sutton. Since that time the area has changed, the Wash has been pushed back and rushes grow in areas where sands were covered by high tide. Man made drainage canals have also gained ground. The treasure is probably now lying 30ft deep. King John had taken a longer route through Wisbech and over higher ground and was able to witness the loss. He then rode to the Abbey at Swineshead. Quicksand is in the area.

[from World Wide Shipwrecks ]


#46406 11/03/01 03:11 PM
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Thanks, you two. Wonder if anybody's found the treasure yet??


#46407 11/03/01 06:17 PM
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Wonder if anybody's found the treasure yet??

Nope. Or if they have, they're not telling.

Damn you, NickW, I was going to trot out the Wash story tonight as an example of how King J. had two cold baths in 1215, and how the second one was probably less costly in the long run than the first ...



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#46408 11/03/01 06:30 PM
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There have been unsuccessful attempts to locate the jewels. Unfortunately they did not have a seaman with them smart enough to take accurate bearings


#46409 11/04/01 08:54 AM
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There have been unsuccessful attempts to locate the jewels. Unfortunately they did not have a seaman with them smart enough to take accurate bearings.

In 1215, old son, they didn't have the means or knowledge to enable them to take accurate bearings. They did search at the time, believe me. And so did the locals. But no joy. Or at least that's the current wisdom.



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#46410 11/05/01 04:57 AM
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In reply to:

I saw on Internet a site about a place on North Sea English coast of a place called Scara Brae, where they have found a sauna used in 8000 BC.


Dr. Bill, this may have been one of the Internet's less reliable sites. Scara Brae is in the Orkneys, which are most definitely part of Scotland, not England.

Bingley



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#46411 11/05/01 09:17 AM
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#46412 11/05/01 02:15 PM
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Dear CK: They didn't have theodolites or optical compasses for taking exact azimuth, but they could have lined up objects on shore in more than one direction, so intersection of sightings would be over the wreck.


#46413 11/05/01 02:51 PM
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Great theory, Dr Bill, but would you stop to take bearings when the sea is racing up the shallow sands at a speed of 30 - 40 mph ? (as I believe it does, round there.)


#46414 11/05/01 02:57 PM
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According to a description I read, King John was on shore, and could have.


#46415 11/05/01 03:21 PM
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Ah, but he wasn't a seaman - let alone a smart one.


#46416 11/05/01 05:20 PM
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Back in the thirties there was a hilarious parody of English history "1066 And All That". Which mentioned a staple anecdote of old English history books that King John died ;"of a surfeit of peaches." I remember reading an article in a medical journal speculating that he actually died of coronary heart disease, a malady not described until fairly recently.


#46417 11/05/01 06:55 PM
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One or WW's sites reminded me of a possible alternative explanation for the abandonment of the settlement at Skara Brae. A couple thousand years earlier, the sudden massive subsidence of steep banks of sediment off the Norwegian coast created a tsunami that would surely have sent a high wave over Skara Brae a couple thousand years before it became inhabited. Another tsunami whose traces have not been identified could have killed all the inhabitants far more readily than a storm, and thus ended human occupancy.


#46418 11/06/01 04:36 AM
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Umm, I think "1066 and All That" must have been published in the 1950s rather than the 1930s, Dr. Bill. It mentions the end of WWII, when "America became top nation and history came to a full stop." or words to that effect.

Bingley


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#46419 11/06/01 10:53 AM
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Hi Bill & Bingley:

Unfortunately I don't have a copy to hand, but our State Library's online catalogue lists it as:

Sellar[s], Walter Carruthers & Yeatman, Robert Julian
1066 and all that: a memorable history of England comprising all the parts you can remember, including 103 Good Things, 5 Bad Kings, and 2 Genuine Dates
Note: First published in 1930 [and still in print, but apparently updated]



#46420 11/06/01 12:51 PM
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So nice when it turns out everyone is correct!


#46421 11/06/01 02:21 PM
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Great theory, Dr Bill, but would you stop to take bearings when the sea is racing up the shallow sands at a speed of 30 - 40 mph ? (as I believe it does, round there.)

Rhub's right, of course. And there were other limiting issues as well - one is that there is a complete dearth of landmarks around those parts even during the day, and I believe this happened in the evening. Also, the royal party on shore wouldn't have had a clear view - it's dead flat. They may not even have realised what was happening until it was all over bar the shouting - and, no doubt, the summary executions. John was a typical Angevin king - short of everything, like height, temper and real intelligence. He did have a certain level of low cunning, however.

His older brother Richard was really no better. He just managed to do his worst direct damage in the Middle East rather than England. "Good King Richard", indeed! He bled England dry through taxes (which John had to collect, hence people's dislike of him) to pay for his crusading. And that ransom. And he would have been the first to string Robin Hood up on principle, if Robin Hood had really existed. Unless, of course, Robin was really attractive ...



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#46422 11/06/01 05:40 PM
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Probably didn't exist. After all it'sauna a paper moon.



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That Peaches was quite a gal!!



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But he didn't die in the saddle. That's the way to go.


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Commentary on King John by Mike Ibeji on the BBC History Website - worth a look if you have a couple of spare hours:

"To his contemporaries and to later historians, Richard was a superstar. By comparison, John was a weedy little tick."

John has had bad press; he wasn't so bad, especially in the light of his times. Still, he was all washed up in 1215. Died the next year. It may have been peaches and new cider or it may have been poison administered by a monk. On the other hand he wasn't young and he could easily just have died from a heart attack or a stroke.






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