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I just love this group. You get to learn the most amazing facts. Thanks to you all for being so smart - smart enough to ask the right questions, find the answers and spark more related questions too.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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ants! i am so glad you came back! and posted again! we are a wild and crazy bunch-- and as you have noted, are prone to as you so gallently worded it..intriguing diversions. Welcome to board.. and do please stay, and post.
as for the answer to your question, its greek to me.. i only have a second class degree.. (but not a desmond..) which i am sure Jackie's aunt Mav or Rhu will be happy to explain. so no latin or greek for me. but as i recall the prefixes are not too different.. deca is 10 (as in a dodecahedron-- a 12 sided figure.. (do =2, deca=10, dodeca=2+ 10 or 12) but i don't specifically know the numeric prefixes.
and keep plugging away, we will continue to spin off diversions. but eventually, we will answer your questions..
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Ants: I always have an answer on tap, but can't remember what the question was.
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Joined: Apr 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Latin: dec, nov, oct, sept, sex, quin, quad, tri, bi/duo, uni.
Greek: dek, ennea, oct, hept, hex, pent, tetra, tri, anhi/di, hen.
If you're familiar with the metric system, dividers as in millimetre (1/1000 of a metre) are Latin based and multipliers as in kilometre (1000 metres) are Greek based.
If you look at the thread "not English but Urdu,,, I think" from the beginning of the month, you'll find a list of the Sanskrit forms from 1-8.
Bingley
Bingley
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If supputation is in an Act of Parliament, then the word is supputation, and this was before you rebelled, so it applies to you as well. Yah boo sucks to you. [we will be returning you to adulthood as soon as possible]
A.D. 1751. Anno vicesimo quarto GEORGII II.
CAP. XXIII.
An Act for Regulating the Commencement of the Year; and for
Correcting the Calendar now in Use.
[`Amended by 25 Geo. 2. c. 30.']
` WHEREAS the legal Supputation of the Year of our Lord in that Part ` of *Great Britain* called *England*, according to which the Year ` beginneth on the 25th Day of *March*, hath been found by Experience ` to be attended with divers Inconveniencies, not only as it differs ` from the Usage of neighbouring Nations, but also from the legal ` Method of Computation in that Part of *Great Britain* called ` *Scotlond* [sic], and from the common Usage throughout the whole ` Kingdom, and thereby frequent Mistakes are occasioned in the Dates ` of Deeds, and other Writings, and Disputes arise therefrom:
Bingley
Bingley
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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>like All Souls day..(Nov 1st) which is now a holy day of obligation Unless it was different in Ireland, Helen: All Saints (those who have been canonised) is the 1st (holy day of obligation) and All Souls (ordinary souls like you and I) is the 2nd November. http://www.easterbrooks.com/ccgi-bin/Cathcal.cgi?20011101
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Supputation is simply calculation or scheme for calculation.
TEd
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When the Christians looked around for a time to celebrate the birth of the Christ they selected Saturnalia because they could celebrate when others were celebrating Saturnalia and they wouldn't be noticed.
That's an interesting take on the issue. I've certainly noticed the concurrence of "pagan" and Christian holy days, but I always assumed it was a PR move on the Christians' part ("Sure you can still celebrate Saturnalia, just call it Christmas, OK?") rather than camoflage. Is that just your theory, Ted, or do you know it to be the case?
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Carpal Tunnel
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>Is that just your theory, Ted, or do you know it to be the case?
That is an excellent question, FL. One for which there might not be a good answer. There's no documentation of when Jesus was born, and no one bothered to record his birth anywhere, so far as we know. Beyond that, there's no documentation that Christians formally celebrated the birth of Christ for quite some time after his crucifixion. I found this at the top of a google on "history of Christmas":
The History of Christmas
The history of Christmas dates back over 4000 years. Many of
our Christmas traditions were celebrated centuries before the
Christ child was born. The 12 days of Christmas, the bright fires,
the yule log, the giving of gifts, carnivals(parades) with floats,
carolers who sing while going from house to house, the holiday
feasts, and the church processions can all be traced back to the
early Mesopotamians.
Many of these traditions began with the Mesopotamian
celebration of New Years. The Mesopotamians believed in many
gods, and as their chief god - Marduk. Each year as winter arrived
it was believed that Marduk would do battle with the monsters of
chaos. To assist Marduk in his struggle the Mesopotamians held a
festival for the New Year. This was Zagmuk, the New Year's
festival that lasted for 12 days.
The Mesopotamian king would return to the temple of
Marduk and swear his faithfulness to the god. The traditions called
for the king to die at the end of the year and to return with Marduk
to battle at his side.
To spare their king, the Mesopotamians used the idea of a
"mock" king. A criminal was chosen and dressed in royal clothes.
He was given all the respect and privileges of a real king. At the
end of the celebration the "mock" king was stripped of the royal
clothes and slain, sparing the life of the real king.
The Persians and the Babylonians celebrated a similar festival
called the Sacaea. Part of that celebration included the exchanging
of places, the slaves would become the masters and the masters
were to obey.
Early Europeans believed in evil spirits, witches, ghosts and
trolls. As the Winter Solstice approached, with its long cold nights
and short days, many people feared the sun would not return.
Special rituals and celebrations were held to welcome back the sun.
In Scandinavia during the winter months the sun would
disappear for many days. After thirty-five days scouts would be sent
to the mountain tops to look for the return of the sun. When the
first light was seen the scouts would return with the good news. A
great festival would be held, called the Yuletide, and a special feast
would be served around a fire burning with the Yule log. Great
bonfires would also be lit to celebrate the return of the sun. In
some areas people would tie apples to branches of trees to remind
themselves that spring and summer would return.
The ancient Greeks held a festival similar to that of the
Zagmuk/Sacaea festivals to assist their god Kronos who would
battle the god Zeus and his Titans.
The Roman's celebrated their god Saturn. Their festival was
called Saturnalia which began the middle of December and ended
January 1st. With cries of "Jo Saturnalia!" the celebration would
include masquerades in the streets, big festive meals, visiting
friends, and the exchange of good-luck gifts called Strenae (lucky
fruits).
The Romans decked their halls with garlands of laurel and
green trees lit with candles. Again the masters and slaves would
exchange places.
"Jo Saturnalia!" was a fun and festive time for the Romans,
but the Christians though it an abomination to honor the pagan god.
The early Christians wanted to keep the birthday of their Christ
child a solemn and religious holiday, not one of cheer and
merriment as was the pagan Saturnalia.
But as Christianity spread they were alarmed by the continuing
celebration of pagan customs and Saturnalia among their converts.
At first the Church forbid this kind of celebration. But it was to no
avail. Eventually it was decided that the celebration would be tamed
and made into a celebration fit for the Christian Son of God.
Some legends claim that the Christian "Christmas"
celebration was invented to compete against the pagan celebrations
of December. The 25th was not only sacred to the Romans but also
the Persians whose religion Mithraism was one of Christianity's
main rivals at that time. The Church eventually was successful in
taking the merriment, lights, and gifts from the Saturanilia festival
and bringing them to the celebration of Christmas.
The exact day of the Christ child's birth has never been
pinpointed. Traditions say that it has been celebrated since the
year 98 AD. In 137 AD the Bishop of Rome ordered the birthday of
the Christ Child celebrated as a solemn feast. In 350 AD another
Bishop of Rome, Julius I, choose December 25th as the
observance of Christmas.
http://www.holidays.net/christmas/story.htm
A perusal of some of the other sites (there are lots of them) doesn't find specific support the theory, but doesn't rule it out, either. This is one of those things that I have "always" known, it seems, having been taught same by my father, who was an historian and journalist. It made sense, because I knew the early Christians were widely persecuted and kept their lights under bushels, so I just accepted it.
In retrospect, I would NOT bet money on the theory, but I wouldn't bet against it either.
TEd
TEd
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Dear Ants: In case you are not already sufficiently confused, here is a URL that tells about the entirely new calendar proposed by the proponents of the French Revolution: http://windhorst.org/calendar/
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