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#4414 08/07/00 01:17 PM
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tsuwm:

Thanks for setting me straight. Somewhere I had gotten the idea that there were ides only in March, May, July and October, which were the months in which the ides occurred on the 15th rather than the 13th.

My statement should have been that I didn't inform the editor that the date tax returns are due is no on the Ides of April, or as I was making the pun, "the ides of taxes."

Thanks again!!


Ted



TEd
#4415 08/07/00 02:00 PM
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tsuwm Offline OP
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today's "Maven's Word of the Day" discusses 'freshmen';
I submit this without further comment:

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/


#4416 08/07/00 03:20 PM
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> today's "Maven's Word of the Day" discusses 'freshmen'; I submit this without further comment

So freshman is now politically incorrect. I propose that we create a new word based on the concept we find in sophomore, which literally means wise and foolish from the Greek. How about calling people who haven't become wise-foolish foolish-foolish. Voila! moromore. Which would make a sad freshamn from the southern Philippines a morose Moro moromore. Heck, even Shakespeare talked about a six-pack of 'em -- two Moros and two Moros and two Moros.

Hmmm. I think I just fell in that damned French river again.



TEd
#4417 08/09/00 01:47 PM
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tsuwm Offline OP
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>I propose that we create a new word based on the
concept we find in sophomore, which literally means wise and foolish from the Greek.

this must be the natural followup -- today's "Maven" debunks this notion, claiming the 'soph' in sophomore is more akin to the Sophists, who were "clever", the other meaning of sophos.

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/


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Bill Buckley, in his (admittedly pedantic) defense of the old style of using gender-loaded language, points out that there is actually a linguistic trope which "legitimizes" this language; i.e., the synecdoche. per Merriam-Webster a synecdoche is a figure of speech by which a part is put for the whole (as fifty sail for fifty ships), the whole for a part (as society for high society), the species for the genus (as cutthroat for assassin), the genus for the species(as a creature for a man), or the name of the material for the thing made (as boards for stage). Buckley's point seems to be that such constructions will always be be warranted in literature and the arts, for the mere sound if nothing else.


#4419 08/09/00 05:49 PM
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>I propose that we create a new word ...

Interesting debate and completely alien to me.

We have a rather quaint way of naming people at university.

People in their first year are called - First Years
People in their second year are called - Second Years
People in their third year are called - Third Years

No problem with gender differences there.

During the week at my university (and I assume, others) there was a "Freshers Fair" where those new to the university, Freshers, could go along and select clubs or activities to join. I started in 1978 and I cannot recall ever having heard the word "Freshman", so it either died out years ago or was never used. I don't think we were called Freshers for more than the first few weeks, after that were just called first years. I have only come across Sophomore in films and was never really sure which period of time it related to.

So the short answer is you don't need to study Greek to replace "Freshman" you could call people "Freshers", "First Years" or perhaps even ......."Newbies"


#4420 08/09/00 06:24 PM
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>this must be the natural followup -- today's "Maven" debunks this notion, claiming the 'soph' in sophomore is more akin to the Sophists, who were "clever", the other meaning of sophos.

Alas, I am at work and my OED is at home. All three dictionaries I have access to here say sophomore arises from sophos plus mor rather than from sophemer or however it was she spelled it. I'm certainly going to check on it when I get home this evening. The article in Mavens' Word a Day sounds convincing, though possibly just a tad on the glib side. Meanwhile,

Ted wanders off singing:

My OED's outside, covered with snow,
The New Net's a lonely town,
when you're the only surfer boy around.



TEd
#4421 08/09/00 09:42 PM
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Here's a humorous addition to this thread. It's from the (online) University of Victoria's Writer's Guide. The Genuine Canadian Buzz-Phrase Generator provides a model for creating meaningless phrases for use in a business or scientific report. Combine one word from each column.
Col 1 Col 2 Col 3
integrated management options
overall organizational flexibility
systematized reciprocal mobility
parallel digital programming
functional logistical concept

The list continues, but you get the picture!
(Just previewed this post and it looks like the columns and words ran together; sorry I don't know how to fix this.)



#4422 08/11/00 03:40 PM
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jackiemw--

Yep, sounds like Dilbert-speak to me!


#4423 08/11/00 05:01 PM
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>>Yep, sounds like Dilbert-speak to me!

Jackie,

"Dilbert" was what first flashed in my mind when I read this thread. Unfortunately, (and this is why Dilbert is so popular) corporate America is laden with these kind of phrases. I'm guessing most MBA programs have a required class in Corporate-Drivel


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