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"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, always. --Mahatma Gandhi
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Carpal Tunnel
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But Gandhi had more patience than most people. As we know, 12 years of power can be enough for some tyrants to destroy nearly 20 million people. That's 12 years too long. And today one tyrant with the kind of weapon system available to him or her could effectively destroy the world as we know it in a matter of days.
Sorry to be so gloomy, but I find it hard to understand passive resistance when all it amounts to is waiting until the problem goes away!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Carpal Tunnel
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CK, I think you may have focussed so hard on the first word of the phrase that you haven't given full weight to the second: resistance of the kind Gandhi created was a completely unstoppable force for good.
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Carpal Tunnel
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I think you may have focussed so hard on the first word of the phrase that you haven't given full weight to the second
No, Mav, I don't really think I did. My opinion of Gandhi is probably not that of the masses.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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veteran
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With all due respect, Gandhi was wrong. Right off the bat, one could point to Genghis Khan, who killed uncounted people and made himself the scourge of the known world in his time, and kept on doing it for decades until he died in his bed. Unless that's what Gandhi meant by "falling", which doesn't present much of an argument. And I have no doubt that througout history there have been innumerable cases of local Attilas, Hitlers, etc. whom we don't know about because they occupied a stage too small to capture any place in history books.
Gandhi was a truly great and visionary man, but I have to feel that what he accomplished could probably not have been done, even by him, in different circumstances and in different times. He went up against the power of the Raj, not an inherently bloodthirsty regime. Genghis, or Attila, or any of that ilk would have had him impaled in short order.
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Carpal Tunnel
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re: He went up against the power of the Raj,
he succeeded with the Raj, but he started in South Africa.
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old hand
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old hand
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I don't want to get drawn into any argument because in this present world situation stating your point of veiw is just letting the steam out of your mouth (meaning it does not lead to anything), but I could not let this go.
All I want to say is this is a world that is getting more fractured. Hatred is increasing. (Believe me from the part of the world I come from, I know how much). I think in the present situation you have keep a control on your mouth. CapK and ByB you're entitled to your opinions that picking up a gun is doing the active thing, that Gandhi was "wrong" and in the present situation "would have had him impaled in short order."
I don't need to read that!
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Avy, I know you mean well and have the most noble motives and sentiments, but your last post is an example of how disagreements arise and get blown out of all proportion among people who ought to be able to get along.
You impute to CapK and me opinions that we did not express (that picking up a gun is the active thing) and which, at least so far as I am concerned (CapK can speak for himself) are not my opinions. Further, you imply that I said I would have had Gandhi impaled, when it is perfectly clear that I said that Genghiz Khan or Attila would have done so. Indeed, I believe I expressed my admiration for Gandhi, and I do admire him -- as a thinker and philosopher, but not as a reliable guide for dealing with a situation such as the one we find ourselves in.
This entire discussion has been informative, educational, interesting and even moving. However, it now appears to me that it can no longer be carried on in the spirit to which we are accustomed here. Rather than mar the spirit which makes us a big family, and which I enjoy so much, I shall make no further contributions to this or related threads; I shall not even read them, lest some outrageous or misguided statement should tempt me to break this resolution. But to those of you who carry on, this plea: at least pay attention to what others are saying and don't twist their words -- that's the least you owe everyone.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Avy, I don't know how you got that from CapK's or BobY posts. Neither one of them were advocating picking up a gun and neither one of them said they would have Gandhi impaled.
a) Cap simply said that in today's society so many people have access to objects of mass destruction that to wait 12 years, like Gandhi did, could mean the death of millions of people. He was NOT saying using guns is a good thing. He was nowhere near saying that.
b) BYB said that if Gandhi had been up against a Genghis Khan or Attila the Hun, instead of a peaceful Raj, he would have been impaled on the spot. He DOES NOT say that he would impale him. He is saying that Gandhi’s method of dealing would not have worked everywhere.
I’m sorry if this sounds harsh but seriously Avy, you were really rude the these two guys and for no reason at all.
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Avy, you were really rude the these two guys and for no reason at all.
bel, you're unfair to Avy. He was advocating that we posters adopt a calmer tone and refrain from incendiary terms like "impaled".
I would have advocated the same way, and I hope I would have done so with more restraint, but I too was disturbed by the words to which Avy replied. And since he lives in India, I can understand why he would be particularly distressed by the negative references to Gandhi. Avy was reacting to provocation (accidental provocation, I trust), not "for no reason at all".
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