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jmh - Well done analogy... except... never mind, back to work. Now... where's my desk?
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Carpal Tunnel
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Keiva, inselpeter's post has touched you, and you keep noting that your feel his main (or one of his main points)is being highjacked.. for those, like me who aren't thinking as clear as we should/could be, could you cut and paste from his post, to bring us back to target? i am a flat moder, and as threads get woven, i sometimes focus on the whole, not the starting point.
and while mav singled you out, i think he was being generic in his critisms. censorship is not in your power, or my power -- ain't life great? i work hard not to hate people, but have no trouble hating ideas, and censorship is one that i hate.. i have put my money where my mouth is on this issue..
but i do understand the issue. i have been upset not with the content, as much as i have been upset with the tone of some of the posts. i have all but been accused of being a racist for not agreeing its ok to call some people names.. after all, it was argued, they deserved it.
i don't think we should ever be calling each other rude names. no one, ever deserves to be ridiculed, even if they are wrong.
i know i don't always get my tone right (tone fall somewhere below spelling, and just plain being able to make sense. and i sometimes fail there too) but we can try.
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Joined: Apr 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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>you keep noting that your feel his main (or one of his main points)is being highjacked..
"objections as to tone and subject--among other things--"
-ron obvious
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Carpal Tunnel
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That's essentially what I meant, tsuwm; I added a clarifying edit above, phrasing it somewhat differently.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
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<<IP's main original point:
I value this group of people--the forum in general, the opportunity to exchange ideas and talk about language, a number of friendships here. Nerves have been frayed. In the interest of maintaining the quality of *other threads, I thought--given the extraordinary circumstances--it might be good to have a thread in which to discuss certain issues that had been arising in various threads in another place. The main point was to preserve the quality of the discussions in those *other threads and thereby protect the forum as a whole.
The next sentence is meant to clarify my own position, only, and is not otherwise directed at any member, either in support or in scolding (neither of which I consider to have a place here). I do not consider points of housekeeping beyond the legitimate scope of members' concerns nor do I consider myself qualified to offer any but my own opinion what might or might not qualify as a legitimate concern in this forum.
There are those here with whom I've had differences of one sort or another. There is *not *one here whose presence I do not value.
Tsuwm, I respectfully disagree. The last week has been so entirely out of the ordinary that talking about events cannot constitute talking about the day-to-day. That said, as to my own contributions I do understand that concentration on the Topic can have been disturbing, and my thanks--and implicit requests for indulgence (or visa versa?)--have been genuine. It has required a lot to think about anything *other than what happened here and transformed the neighborhood where I live. I have tried to restrict my remarks to designated threads.
I really don't think the board is lost. The membership responded to a crisis in many important ways. I don't think anyone has lost their interest in language or their acuity.
For myself, I had planned never to post here again. Someone wrote me at my regular email address and asked me to assure the community here I was well. I was touched by their concern and I am very glad for the friendship I have found here, and found here again.
Since it was meant as a pressure valve, I hope this thread dies quickly from lack need.
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I think that one of the reasons that this Board thrives with so many divergent personalities is that we have, by and large, decided to keep our pet hates to ourselves, unless they are word-related. I hope that everybody will see the advantages of continuing such a practice. And later: [Max,] I would be most interested in your views on that problem.
Max: Sorry, Keiva, but I have nothing to add on the subject.
Max, the first two sentences are, verbatim, language you yourself authored several months ago, in a previous contentious context. I was frankly expecting that you'd reaffirm them. Have your views changed? or do you feel this is an instance of "circumstances alter cases"?
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Carpal Tunnel
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inselpeter respectfully disagrees The last week has been so entirely out of the ordinary that talking about events cannot constitute talking about the day-to-day. you can certainly disagree with any and all of my bloated opinions, but you shan't restate my awad raison d'être . I (speaking personally now) don't come here to vent, except about pet peeves with language (and one notable exception for which I remain unabashedly ashamed). I reserve the other stuff for jackie and a couple of others in PMs.  nor have I said anything which could be construed as a demand to stop it ( although we have a couple of newly minted prime examples that might warrant that). I was merely asked, you will recall, for my opinion on the substance and quality of discourse. and that's still what I think.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Helen, it was most graceful of you to say, "Keiva, while mav singled you out, I think he was being generic in his criticisms." But mav will want to speak for himself and make, as TEd and I have done, such apologies or clarifications as he deems appropriate.
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I was merely asked, you will recall, for my opinion on the substance and quality of discourse. and that's still what I think.
Well, now that I've prepared this box to type in, I can't get my thoughts in any kind of order. Will you all kindly bear with me, as this will be mostly stream-of-consciousness?
tsuwm, you say you don't come here to vent, except about language. A laudable decision. I think most of the rest of us make that same decision--most of the time. As my sweet insel. said, nerves are frayed by what has happened, and is happening. Its enormity has led us first, to be so thankful that our two NYC members are safe, then into further discussion of events, and then on over into politics and sure enough, that has led to discord (surprise, surprise). Now, on the one hand, it has been a valuable education to me to learn how people in other parts of the world think, but despite my valuing that, the cost has now become too high for me.
tsuwm, I don't know whether or not you come to this board as a refuge. I do, and some others (thank you) have posted that they have. I would very much like to see it go back to being that. The defamatory ambush on my beloved friend came as such a shock, that I don't feel that I can tolerate any more of the public "did too/did not" types of posts that have been appearing: MY nerves are too frayed. So if anyone feels that they need to clarify/defend their position, I would very much appreciate it if you carried that on with whoever the appropriate party is in private.
This is really starting to get to me, you-all.
I...I...so much has happened here, in I & A
I mean, and so much of it is so important, I really don't feel that I can actually suggest that anything further on The Topic be switched over to Miscellany, but...there is at least one thread on it there already, and...especially if folks would take care to mark their posts' subject titles, that would allow me and any others who wish, to avoid reading what we would prefer not to. If you have managed to wade through this ramble, I thank you for your patience.
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