|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Pooh-Bah
|
OP
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819 |
On the news they mentioned that a "material witness" was detained in relation to the WTC attack. My question is, what exactly is meant by "material witness"? Does it mean a very important witness or is there something more specific in terms of legalese about it?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
A "material witness" is one able to give useful information of which
he has important firsthand knowledge, not hearsay.
Dict.:
Law: important enough to affect the outcome of a case
the validity of a legal instrument, etc. "a material witness"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094 |
I'd say that a material witness is one who can provide information about the event, as opposed to a character witness who gives background infomation on the personality of someone, usually the defendant I would assume.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Interestingly, in my edition of Black's Law Dictionary (the standard work of its kind), the term "material witness" does not appear. A civil litigator with whom I checked had no solid definition, but suggested it might be a term of criminal law rather that civil law.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Pooh-Bah
|
|
OP
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819 |
From cnn.com: Aided by a federal grand jury in White Plains, New York, the investigation has detained 80 people for questioning and has four people under arrest as material witnesses.
So they arrest a material witness, which implies wrongdoing, as if the witness were also invovled in the crime. Or maybe they are "arrested" for safekeeping -- i.e. sequestered so somebody like the mafia or a terrorist can't "grease" them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
Or maybe they are "arrested" for safekeeping
In general, yes. Also my understanding that material witnesses are arrested and detained so they don't disappear, especially if they are foreign nationals or there is reason to believe the person(s) might otherwise make themselves scarce so as not to get involved.
Or so I understand.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
A quick google of "material witness" yields, sadly, an appeal concerning the material witness warrant of Terry Lynn Nichols which was issued in connection with the grand jury proceeding against Timothy McViegh. "The warrant stated on its face that "the Witness's testimony is material in a criminal proceeding, and he has attempted to leave the jurisdiction of the United States, and it may become impracticable to secure his presence by subpoena." Apparently, a material witness is one whose testimony is material to the case, but might flee if subpoenaed and must therefore be arrested. http://www.law.emory.edu/10circuit/feb96/95-3130.wpd.htmlSparteye?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Hell, I've been a material witness on any number of occasions. Sandra's forever going into draperies and buying the stuff. And I have to watch. On that score, I also tend to be a material carrier ... 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Another interesting difference between your side of the pond and ours. Here drapery refers to the cloth itself, there drapery seems to refer to the store itself.
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
More than that, draperies, out of context, would to most US's mean window clothes.. heavy weight, or ornate curtains. (simple cloth, gathered, on a window is a curtain), but Scarlet O'Hara pulled down the velvet drapes to make her dress.
If you meant Dress shops, or clothing stores.. (as i presume you did) you'd never call them a drapery here!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
OH. Did you mean clothes CapK? I was wondering why you would be (seemingly) buying curtains all that often. I assumed (now I see, maybe wrongly) that you were decorating your new place.
In Québec, draperies (used in both English and French) can mean the whole shebang - filmy gauze that goes underneath or heavy-weight/ornate material that goes on top.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
To me, draperies are very ornate clothing, like an old-fashioned ball gown with lots of shawls and things draped over the woman in question. A draper's would be a shop for buying fabrics.
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Interestingly, in my edition of Black's Law Dictionary, the term "material witness" does not appear.
A more-recent edition defines the term, in two separate places. The two definitions are not entirely consistent, but have the same general thrust:
Material witness. A person who can give testimony no one else, or at least very few, can give. In an important criminal case, a material witness may sometimes be held by the government against his or her will. He may be the victim or an eye witness."
Witness [subhead: Material witness]. In criminal trial, a witness whose testimony is crucial to either the defense or prosecution. In most states, he may be required to furnish bond for his appearance and, for want of surety, he may be confined until he testifies.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
According to a recent interview on NPR (That's the US'n ABC for all y'all Ozzies) the rights of material witnesses are practically non-existent unless they have been actually accused of a crime.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
In reply to:
NPR (That's the US'n ABC for all y'all Ozzies)
So that's why US'ns can't spell. They've got a different alphabetical order. 
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
According to a recent interview on NPR (That's the US'n ABC for all y'all Ozzies) the rights of material witnesses are practically non-existent unless they have been actually accused of a crime.S'right! I have no rights at all when Sandra wants to go shopping. I'm a material witness - and carrier - completely against my will. 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
<< I have no rights at all when Sandra wants to go shopping.
Except, perhaps, the right to remain silent?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Except, perhaps, the right to remain silent?
No. But sometimes I have the sense to remain silent ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
>Another interesting difference between your side of the pond and ours Funny, I wouldn't use the term drapery in the same context either, perhaps it is more Zild than Pom? On the other hand, I note that the usage seems to be backed up by the UK fashion and footwear industry http://www.drapersrecord.com/index2.html. I think that the term is more used by market analysts than shoppers here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Draper was used in the 60's by my nana in ireland, to describe dress shops. a draper was a better quality shop, (and echoing Bingley here,) would custom make dresses, or stock fancy items rather than the "off the rack" or ready manufactured clothing. so drapery would much more likely be evening clothes, or other fancy attire. so it was used your side of the pond at one point Jo. it might be old fashioned.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
'a draper was a custom dress shop'
And "to drape" is still used, in theater at least, to mean custom fitting costumes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
the sense to remain silent
Like when she wants to know if that dress makes her look fat?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Like when she wants to know if that dress makes her look fat?I think you still have a little to learn about dealing with women and clothes, mon ami ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
The Parson's wife goes shopping and returns with a new dress and models it for her husband.
Parson : "My dear, it is lovely but you really shouldn't have bought it.
Wife : I know dear but I couldn't resist the temptation.
Parson: Didn't you remember to say "Get thee behind me Satan?"
Wife : Yes, dear, but the old Devil said "It looks lovely from the back, too"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
<<the old Devil said "It looks lovely from the back, too
the savy devil will think twice before saying that; he may never sample the goods, but he'll always keep the view
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
a draper was a better quality shop ... would custom make dresses
This came to me overnight :
In dressmaking sometimes the designer would drape the customer with the fabric to see how fabric "draped" and whether or not the color suited the customer.
Additionally sometimes tailors would (will) drape a model with muslins from which a pattern was cut.
The word "muslin" - in the world of couture - has two meanings 1. the fabric itself; and 2. the designed garment made up in a muslin fabric, sewn with stiches easily pulled out, leaving the pieces perfectly fitted to the person which is then used as a pattern for making up the garment in the more expensive fabric.
Muslin is a finely woven cotton fabric, usually a sort of ecru color, which (I believe) is sometimes used as an inter-lining in hand crafted men's suits.
Whew! See what you learn when you have a friend who worked on Seventh Avenue?
For non-US'ns 7th Avenue, New York City, is the heart of the Garment District.
AEnigma wants "men's" to be menace. Hmmmmm. Perhaps it is just men in drapers' shops?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385 |
I think we have to look at the meaning of "material" apart from the word "witness" to understand the term "material witness" properly. "Material" is used in legal documents and evidentiary law to mean the opposite of "immaterial". For instance, we often hear the expression "at all material times" meaning times which are relevant to the facts and issues in dispute or subject to examination. There is a latin expression which bears mention in this regard: de minimis non curat lex (or "de minimis" for short). Translation: "The law does not concern itself with trifles." A "material witness" is one who has more than trifling or "immaterial" evidence to present to the court.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385 |
Would a ghost be an immaterial witness?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Would a ghost be an immaterial witness?
Excorporeal, anyway. The kind Tony Soprano prefers.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
"Revenge his foul and most unnatural murder!"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Oh, do you mean (sorry, Uderzo and Goscinny) "Into the lake with chains on his feet!" Au fond, it was all down to the fondue ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
well, CapK, I'm kinda "fondaYu" too. Post-edit, vis-a-vis Jackie: non-possessively. FondYue is meant to be shared. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
well, CapK, I'm kinda "fondaYu" tooHey! Nuh-uh, no way. I have staked first claim!
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,335
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
497
guests, and
0
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
