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Michael Quinion has reported that “Many people responded to the question about an Irishwoman in New York who regretted that she had to "pay the black penny" for something, that is, full price. Unfortunately, nobody was able to provide firm information…"http://www.worldwidewords.orgDoes anyone here have any suggestions or observations?
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Dear maverick:Good to see your new title, which fits you better than it does me. Good to see a post about words for a change. I wondered if "pay the black penny" might mean pay the black market price. I could not find anything on the Internet to support the idea.
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if "pay the black penny" might mean pay the black market price.
Excellent, Dr. Bill! Makes sense to me. Oh--I just thought of something else: could it have something to do with the actual color of money, either here or in Ireland?
A chemical change, maybe, the way copper turns green? I don't know anything about Irish money.
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Dear maverick: your URL was not helpful in finding Quinion's discussion, if any, of "pay the black penny".
I went to a good bit of trouble and was not able to locate it. I'm beginning to wonder if archie is monkeying with your computer again. Or can a cockroach monkey?
Mostly I wondered if archie had somehow gotten confused by the voluminous Internet discussions of the "Penny Black" .
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Dr. Bill, the black penny query was raised in a new feature in Michael Quinlon's newsletter where he throws open to readers questions he's been unable to answer. I think it was actually the first one he did this with. This feature doesn't seem to have made it on to the site, though there is a bit of a time lag between items appearing in the newsletter and their appearance on the site.
Bingley
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Yes, Mr B saith soothly Bill. I quoted the basic site ref without checking the exact location of any resource - sorry.
FWIW, I had wondered if it could relate to the old habit of placing pennies on the eyes of a corpse - so that would be the last coin 'paid' by anyone, giving a meaning something like "I'll be dead before I pay full retail price for ~ !". However, I have nothing but surmise to base it on!
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The URL below takes you to the original quote, Scroll way down to number 6, the second paragraph starting with "Judith Rascoe". I did not find any additional help by doing so. http://www.worldwidewords.org/backissues/sampleissue.txt
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Mav:
Could it be so simple as the act of paying out one's last penny, the one found in the ashes in the fireplace?
TEd
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I found this fragment: The Black Penny was believed to be useful in curing mental disorders in cattle [mad cow disease!?] and was often borrowed by local English farmers for its supposed healing powers. The Black Penny was a coin belonging to the Turnbull family. To function properly, the coin had to be immersed into water that ran in a southerly direction; that water was then given to the sick animal to drink. The coin was smaller than an ordinary penny, but thicker. It was made of copper and zinc and had a raised rim. It was lost about 1827.
if this is connected, I'd think that you'd only spend this as a last resort.
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there's light at the end of the carpal tunnel! Where did you find this, tsuwm?
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