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#41591 - 09/19/01 10:48 PM Religions in travail
Bobyoungbalt Offline

Registered: 11/22/00
Posts: 1289
May I be so bold as to declare a short break in this most vigorous thread (I think we could use a short break) and insert for your perusal this poem apropos to IP's thoughtful discussion?

Show me deare Christ, thy Spouse, so bright and clear.
What! is it She, which on the other shore
Goes richly painted? or which robb'd and tore
Laments and mourns in Germany and here?
Sleepes she a thousand, then peepes up one yeare?
Is she selfe truth and errs? now new, now outwore?
Doth she, and did she, and shall she evermore
On one, on seaven, or on no hill appeare?
Dwells she with us, or like adventuring knights
First travaile we to seeke and then make Love?
Betray kind husband thy spouse to our sights,
And let myne amorous soule court thy mild Dove,
Who is most trew, and pleasing to thee, then
When she'is embrac'd and open to most men.

-- John Donne

#41592 - 09/19/01 10:53 PM Overlarge thread
Bobyoungbalt Offline

Registered: 11/22/00
Posts: 1289
This is a great thread but unmanageably large. Would one of you old masters do what it takes to break it up?

#41593 - 09/20/01 12:48 AM Re: People for the American Way
Capital Kiwi Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 3146
Loc: Northamptonshire, England
Froggie, I meant that the "left-wing" political party - theoretically the Democrats - would be regarded, in its entirety, as ultra-conservative in Zild. - Ratty.*

*Froggie of Toad Hall? Doesn't really sound right, does it?

The idiot also known as Capfka ...

#41594 - 09/20/01 05:15 AM -
jmh Offline

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981

#41595 - 09/20/01 05:18 AM -
jmh Offline

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981

#41596 - 09/20/01 06:08 AM Re: Security II
rodward Offline

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 609
Loc: Portsmouth, United Kingdom
auto-pilot controlled landings ... I believe this is practicable now, just not deemed advisable for the public's feeling of security

many landings are on auto-pilot as I understand it, they just don't talk about it much. Certainly the old Trident airplanes (circa 20 years ago?) were the only ones able to land in fog at London, precisely because it was automatic. There is a story that the program had to be changed because it landed too flat, pefectly safe but the customers felt safer with the nose high.

From google - I just had to check my memory:
first fully automated commercial landing was made by a BEA Trident 1 in May 1967

#41597 - 09/20/01 08:33 AM Re: to the right of Ghengiz Khan!
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
And just how far right *was Ghengiz Khan?

As far as I know he could have been the front man for an anarcho-syndicalist collective.

#41598 - 09/20/01 09:12 AM Re: let's adjourn
maverick Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
By request, let us let this massive thread RIP (this is now by popular assent getting very unwieldy)

There is a continuation if you would like to further contribute on any of the themes raised here:


#41599 - 09/20/01 01:29 PM Re: Tea time
TEd Remington Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 3467
Loc: Marion NC
>For your crime of punning, telling of shaggy dog tales and humour of dubious origins I hereby fine you, one cup of tea (hot, no iced stuff), to be brewed by you and presented by you to me in fine bone china the next time I set am within a fifty mile radius of you on US soil.

Bone again, Christian??

Tisane-yone going to defend me here? It's been (t)oolong since I've had such an invitation. You get together the green and we'll have tea together. Assam, my friend in England, told me recently Herb'll want to come along, even if the price be steep.

All seriousness aside, I would love the opportunity to pay my fine.



#41600 - 09/22/01 09:15 AM Re: Remedy/response, terrorist attack Sep 11.
Rubrick Offline

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 679
Loc: Somewhere outside New York
The problem is I don't know if we command enough respect in the eyes of these beasts to react with
authority anymore. We have been proven vulnerable too many times. I believe the roots of this all started

1. When the Carter Administration flinched on attacking when Iran took our hostages in '79. Yes, the lives
of those 50 government workers could have been lost in such an attack and hindsight is 20/20, but they
knew the risks involved in accepting a government job overseas, and we should've gone right in after
them. The aborted rescue mission later was just an incidental after-fact. That's when our respect in the
world starting slipping. And 2. In 1983 when we lost 283 Marines in Beirut (figure may be slightly off) the
Reagan Administration knew they could do nothing, and did nothing except to divert a gullible public's
attention by going into the pismire island-country of Granada to satisfy their need to strike out at
"something." But, ultimately, those (or the country/countries) responsible were never brought to justice
either by litigation or military response.
Besides, Reagan and his cronies (including Bush, Sr.) were too busy covering their tracks of dealing arms
to Iran as a gift for holding the hostages until he was assured of ascending to power...as soon as he
lifted his hand from the Bible at his 1st inauguration, presto!...instant hostage release! But that's another
After these two events it was open season on Americans, and then their Western allies as well...solitary
hostages, plane blasts, European airports, etc. Once they found out they could strike at the US and get
away with it, there was no turning back.

And once a fanatic fuses politics with religion and is ready to die for their "cause," how do you stop
them? I don't know if you can. Though squeamish about capital punishment, I've often said that after the
first World trade Center bombing which I considered to be an act of war designed to destroy the towers
and kill tens of thousands of innocent people, that the perps, immediately upon conviction, should've
been marched against a wall on camera and executed by firing squad. Show them we will not fool around.
But, of course, our sense of justice bequeathed these genoicidal maniacs to life terms in humane
prisons...sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll. Unless they're in solitary for protection. If so I hope they immediately
release these subhuman assholes to the general inmate population which I'm sure would be delighted to
mete out thorough justice to them at this point. Yes, I believe in mercy and forgiveness, but there is a
point where you have to draw a line in the sand, and I've reached it. The stakes are now clear...if you're
an American, you die. Remember that cynical and insulting release of black hostages all through the '80's,
as if African-Americans were going to fall for that ploy of differentiation. Well, the terrorists took care of
that fable when they bombed the US embassies in Africa. But the problem is, it isn't just
Americans...these genoical maniacs who think they speak for their Muslin God...they don't. And certanly
not for the vast majority of the Muslin faithful, it really is a religion of peace, so I really fail to understand
this constant slaughter of the innocent in the name of their God) are trying to take on the entire
world...us, Russia, the Hindus in India, all of Western Europe, their own secular governments,
everybody...it's just craziness! And the real problem is that if you convict and execute any of thes
culprits they're very happy to be martyred for their cause, thank you, and are hailed and viewed as
such...what's the point of killing people who are perfectly willing and happy to die? So where's the
answer, people? I pray to see it...but I just don't know. And we can't afford to go out, now, and blast
away at dubious targets like that grain factory in Sudan, or strike areas that will kill any innocent
(Saddan Hussein...who I think is very culpable in this attack...but his name is not mentioned enough...this
IS after all, the one and the same Bush administration he went to war with in '91, why wouldn't he take
another shot at it? But maybe the Bushes don't want anybody to consider this?...anyway, Saddam is still
sitting pretty in his royal palace, thank you, while 100,000 or so of his countrymen have died around him
as th result (directly or indirectly) of the Gulf War, including an estimated 40,000 children...which shows
and proves you have to kill the head, not just the body, or it doesn't go away). Violate the international
law of political assassination instead of all these "collateral" innocent lives, or, ultimately, what we're
witnessing today? YOU BET!! GO FOR IT!!! We have the technology and trained covert forces to get it
done! Any proven mass-murdered or war criminal...Saddam, Bin Laden, etc. I don't think we have a
choice. Not any more. But, ultimately, too, the sad reality is, that as long as there are people willing to
die in suicide missions, what can the world do? And,what, for God's sake, do these people WANT??? How
did it come to all this?

Thank you for your unsavoury, narrow-minded and bigoted ranting, Whitman.

I hope they do capture the culprits and, if they do sentence them to the firing squad, I hope you are the executioner. I'd like to see the look on your face as you face them with a loaded gun in your hand. Will you smile and enjoy killing as much as they have? Will you do it cold-heartedly? Or will you lose your bottle and admit that you just can't kill?

What kind of person are you? You call these terrorists monsters and yet you bay for blood? I feel sorry for you and all your like-minded sicko types.

You have such a poor understanding of world events and I find your knowledge on other races and civilisations (which are far more civilised than your own, by the way) absolutely appalling.

It's dangerous idiots like you who stir up hatred and bigotry in this world. You definitely should be classed in there with the [deleted] set.

Note: This post was written, like all the others in this thread, in the immediate aftermath of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Centre and elsewhere. As is the case with any 'debate' on such a historic occasion as that, things are said out of context and with great emotion that would not normally be said in times of rationale.

I have apologised to Whitman for the above post which was written with spite and venom which are really not characteristic of me. Bar one word I have decided not to amend the post and to leave the rest of it in its entirety as a reminder to other members, both future and present, of a very intense and heated time on the board.

Let's hope that peace can prevail in the world and on the board and that such a dark event will never be repeated again

Rubrick 01/02/2002

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