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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Rubrick, I doubt you will see this, but I'm responding anyway.
But there are a number of individuals who see the forum as 'their' territory and are pedantic in their nature and not too fussed about seeing newer members develop or even staying - despite your enthusiastic welcomes when they arrive.
My dear--everyone makes choices in the kind of people they choose to be around. An open forum on the internet pretty much removes that choice of whom to "invite" in to one's inner circle. That means that for me, at least, there will be some people here that I take more delight in than others.
I for one choose not to remain enthusiastic to those whose posts I don't care for. (Quick disclaimer--it has pretty much become impossible to consistently acknowledge everyone.
Please do not assume that I want you to go away if you haven't heard from me!) You, dearest Rubrick, have exercised your right to choose, by dropping the lot of us.
And that is to our detriment. You are wonderfully talented,
and I have learned a great deal from you.
However, if numbers amongst you insist on making this a discussion group for the ultra-supreme-high brows Dear One, I am wondering how thoroughly you checked recent posts before making that statement. There are many, many non-high-brow posts, paarticularly in Wordplay & Fun, and Miscellany.
it's only a matter of time before someone decides to take me down-to-size again.
Yes, that's possible. Given the number of members here, it seems logical that eventually you'll say something that somebody will get upset about. But, "there is nothing that can happen to a person that is as important as how he reacts to it". Each of us can choose to stay and try to work through our differences, and/or leave.
Will you mourn for me too, wow? I wonder then again I think not. A 'tut, tut', a roll of the eyes and a 'plenty more where he came from' is all I'll get, I'll wager. You'll always have your Pooh-bahs to keep you company.I don't think I have ever said this on the board before, but Honey, that was completely unfair. Again I am wondering how many threads you read before making this post.
Just reading a few of her posts would inform most people that she is sweet, caring, and very concerned not to tread on toes or intrude where she's not wanted. I have had a fair amount of correspondence with her, and I have never seen her evince the attitude you portray her as having.
Nor anyone else here, for that matter.
It's a measurement of the number of posts you've submitted - not a measure of your grandness or supposed intellect.
This we know, Dear.
Had I consorted to that cheap trick I'd be up there after a week of the forum going live. Live in your ivory towers.
I think you may have over-estimated the importance of "rank" to most of us.
I'm going back to a real world.
I shall miss you being here. Love.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
WARNING! RANT AND LONG SUGGESTION
Skip over if you don't want to be bothered.
I am truly appalled, Keiva, at the PM you received. One would suppose that it came from one of the long-standing members who has posted a great deal, maybe even a pooh-bah or close to it. If that is indeed the case, then he/she has lost touch with reality and really ought to get a life. Firstly, without the least intention of negative criticism, I have noted that most of those who are pooh-bahs or close to it have indulged in innumerable short postings which really consist of chat, or jokes, or ripostes, etc., not anything of substance; this is how you get to be a pooh-bah. And that's OK with me. But I hope no one who indulges in this kind of posting is wacko enough to criticise someone else for making the board more of a chatroom than a discussion arena. Secondly, the notion that anyone should read through the old posts is lunatic. I just counted them. There are at this moment a total of 37,985 posts listed on the main page, not counting old weekly ones. Does anyone expect a newcomer to pay his/her dues by dredging thru all those (85% of which have no real content anyway) while trying to keep up with the 100+ new ones which come on daily?
Since there seems to be at least one person, and maybe more, trying to impose some kind of rules or discipline on newcomers, and sometimes on established members as well, and doing a poor job of communicating his/her concerns, maybe we need to try to establish some basic principles of proper AWAB behavior for everyone, from pooh-bahs on down, to follow. I suggest these for a start:
1. Everyone is welcome here, whether they are really expert in the English language or struggling with it.
2. Every member has an obligation to make newcomers welcome and to assist them if they ask for help on a linguistic point. We have a special obligation to assist young people and those who speak English as a second language.
3. Fresh members and fresh ideas and viewpoints are not only welcome, but necessary if we are not to become a snooty inbred clique. Nothing is expected of new members except a desire to ask a question, or to join in on our discussions and cyberlife to whatever extent they may want or be able to, observing the common rules of courtesy and responsible conduct.
4. Except for Anu Garg, our esteemed founder, we have no officers, no one with any authority over other members. The titles we bear confer no special status and are linked only to the number of times we have posted, which is mostly a matter of simple longevity and ample leisure time. No one is expected to show any deference to any other member simply on the basis of his/her title. Those who are worthy of some degree of respect and deference due to their demonstrated knowledge and wisdom reveal themselves to anyone who sticks around for very long.
5. Our interests and discussions are wide and far ranging. There are categories for postings to be placed in, and we will try to make use of them, but there is some overlap and some subjects do not fit well in the categories, so there should be no criticism of anyone's choice of category.
6. We do not expect or desire to entertain discussions of religion, politics, ethical or moral questions as such. This is not the place for proselytizing, preaching, or trying to argue partisan positions. But quotations or references from scriptural, religious, political etc. sources are acceptable as literature or to illustrate a point in a discussion.
7. Given the number of posts which have built up (due to the popularity of this board), no one can be expected to search thru all, or many of them. It is therefore to be expected that new members will ask questions that have been asked before, or initiate a subject which has been discussed before (what old timers call a YART). It may be useful to gently and politely let that person know that this is covered in old postings, and advise how to find them; but this is only as a matter of helping them out, not to criticise them for doing something heinous.
8. Language which is not suitable for everyone will from time to time be used. We are not prudish and do not attempt to censor anyone. However, all should bear in mind that we have members who do not appreciate scatological language and we also have members (and highly valued ones) who are 14 or even 10 years old.
9. A member, or newcomer, can make him/herself unwelcome by engaging in unnecessary bad language, rudeness to other members, getting personal in debate, introducing subjects not the purview of this board, or, in general, violating the rules of civilized discourse which ladies and gentlemen are expected to observe. We have no way of expelling anyone who becomes unwelcome; the only thing we can do is to admonish such a person, which must be done with the greatest caution and all possible good will, and only in a private message. If unwelcome conduct continues, we can only ignore the offender.
10. We do not tolerate plagiarism. An idea or expression not one's own should be identified by author and source, if known.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
I'd like to comment on a couple of things that two of our... experienced persons* (whom I respect very much) have posted in this thread.
CK: The board has become a community. Communities may have a common interest - language in our case - but they also have other concerns which get aired from time to time, or often all the time.
sometimes the board seems more like a family. some linguaphiles seem not to like each other, just the way a lot of family members don't get along. they like different topics or they have different philosophies about language. and some of us just rub each other the wrong way. you can sometimes feel a certain tension between people, as if they were about to make each other break out in hives. this little microcosm of the world has the intimacy of a family and the squabbles of a family. perhaps the biggest puzzle with a body of individuals such as this is how to maintain the community but remain individuals. without meaning to come across as too parochial, I would also draw a parallel to the US notion (illogical, but optimistic) that you can create a society of individuals in which every man is king.
max: I will continue to try and keep up, hoping for the old spark to be lit once more.
perhaps this is unrealistic. perhaps, as with many things, the bloom inevitably wears off. but rather than relighting the spark, we may, perhaps, be able to bank the warm glow of the yet undying embers.
*I wracked my brain trying to arrive at a neutral-sounding word for this, rejecting veteran, old-timer, pooh-bah (of course), old hand, longtimer, seadog, warhorse, etc.
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I almost didn't come back to this thread. Then I realised it had been very busy and began to read from my last post.
I'm a veteran, and I think I'm about 100 posts off being a Pooh-Bah. Haven't checked, because I don't really care. As, I hope, most of you will realise, the board is a community to me, as it is to many others. Not the only one I live in, but one which has given me a great deal of pleasure over the past ten months. The number of posts is interesting in a mild sort of way, but as has been pointed out above, conveys nothing except the individual's endurance. The real rankings on the board are intellectual and are conferred by other members out of respect, not by the Board software based on a given number of posts.
For those who are new and unaware, I have been travelling in the States recently and have met a number of members of this forum. Without exception, you were nice and generous people, and I enjoyed meeting you immensely. The thing that astonished me was how like your board personas most of you are. I think that most of us who have met others from the board feel pretty much the same way. And I think that I can generalise from the sample I have met and say that this will be the norm. I can't see any reason to come on to the Board and pretend to be someone you're not.
There has recently been a reasonably large number of new people joining the Board and actually posting. I see this as nothing but good. That's what the forum is for. I've often wondered where the rest of the 2,600 people who have signed up are. Some are attracted in the first instance by language but become more interested in the chit-chat. Others only post on language topics. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.
As several posts above this one have pointed out, the Board is different things to different people. Some people are only mildly interested in language, but are very much interested in other people. I need hardly point out Ithaca, New York, to the old-timers as an example of what can happen!
At the moment I have severely restricted (by my standards) access to the Internet. Therefore, I have not even opened the Q&A folder for three months, and there are 3,000 posts there which I am going to have to face up to sooner or later. Every time I come to AWADtalk I look at the url longingly, but have to move on - I&A, Wordplay and Miscellany are all I can manage. Those who don't know me may well believe that CapK is a lightweight not interested in language. The truth is that CapK is a lightweight who IS interested in language but who is short of time.
The point of this, yes. Okay, if people who have been on the Board for a fair while don't like what some of the newer members have to say, do what I do and ignore those posts. This, I might add, is something I don't do very often. Don't criticise them personally on the Board or slag them off in PMs.
And remember, expression and emotion in writing is not necessarily interpreted the way that face-to-face communication is. Be careful. Because I'm inclined to believe that most of the supposed negativity that occurs is actually just a failure of communication. I've been astounded from time-to-time by how what I've written has been picked up by its recipients! But it's MY fault, not theirs!
Enough, already.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 275
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 275 |
Capital Kiwi
I almost didn't come back to this thread.
When Jackie posted her now history-making thread, I felt just as sad as she was about Brandon leaving the board. Subsequent posts to the thread made me think about this board more and what it means to me. I realized that discovering it serendipitously is one of the best things that ever happenend to me since I bought my very first computer. I would never have met people with such intellectual attributes so rich, you feel like you hit the jackpot (if you are wordcrazy, that is).
It is so important to me that when I read the opening words in Capital Kiwi's latest post on the topic, I literally became frightened. That I could lose future contacts with people of his brilliance will just be too great a loss. And he is not the only one I truly admire on this board. There are many and each one has such depth of knowledge that one in my circumstance would never meet in any of the circles I roam in.
What is happening is like a soul searching that I hope will restore the board to its "original" purpose with fun sprinkled all about for what is knowledge without humor.
(This piece was written at the height of passion so please forgive it its many faults in grammar, etc.)
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
I promised Rubrick by PM to “give ‘em hell”, but for now let me note something much more important, and hugely promising.
Bobyoungbalt’s post has sent us into exciting, new territory. Are we inventing a new kind of "government" for ourselves, an informal “cyber-government” to deal with our inevitable growing pains?
What could be more exciting/revolutionary than creating a way to govern our common interests and tensions? So viewed, the tensions in this discussion-to-date drop away in the excitement of our shared endeavor.
And MaxQ, I hope that prospect reenergizes you.
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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"I truly believe you need to take as much time as you do posting to read through the old posts, out of respect for those that enjoy this place as a discussion board, not a chatb room (that would indeed include myself)." I stand by my words and their usage (not spelling  ), and it is without hesitation do I say that they should have (and did) elicit the above posted responses when quoted out of context, let alone understood out of context. Kieva - Feel free to send anyone you like a copy of the complete original PM, and I'll send them your answer and my answer to your answer. I believe you will see pieces of all the above responses imbedded within that original PM... especially since a recent PM from you apologized to me for your own tendencies to lack etiquitte. To this point I remain consistant. It is without a doubt that a "history" of the different personalities is important to understanding specific *umfamiliar uses of words (ie tones of voice), as well as developing and promoting the sense of community I already feel here. By no way do I suggest reading all of the previous posts, but this place does not exist without them. It is out of due respect for tsuwm, Jackie, MaxQ, WOW, wwh, Faldage, Mav, BYB, CapK, AnnaS, JazzO... (and all the others that also understand why I would stop the list at all) that I suggest creating a context to understand in by taking it upon oneself to study the history here. JazzO says: ...communication is really all we have here, isn't it? Yes...and it is the 'personalities' of the words that are being "expected of", misunderstood or not understood at all, IMHO. Peace Kieva - editing your post (after the fact) does not erase the original copy that was sent to me - as your reply post was to me! EDIT - There is no need for any more structure other than self government!
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Bob: YES! tsuwm: YES! Max: YES! CK: YES! wordcrazy: YES! Oh, I agree with everything you-all have said! Thank you, thank you! This is a wonderful place, taking into consideration that nothing can please all of the people all of the time. This is not the first time that a great many of us have shown how very much we care about this place. I shall try to be more aware, though, of how a newcomer may see things (hi, Wrangler!), but would also ask the new people to keep in mind that we "experienced persons" (!) have our ups and downs, too. If anyone feels "jumped on", it is quite possible that the person doing the jumping is having a bad day, and their tolerance level is down, or perhaps they are just too short on time to realize how they are coming across. I will confess now that several times, I have contacted persons who have been not posting for a while, and that some of them have come back (you know who you are- ). Here is a partial list of whom I personally would like to see return to posting: Satin, Seian, lusy, Lucy, screen, michaelo, JMH where are you??, lapsus linguae, Marty, ammelah, shanks, Fishonabike (confess I didn't like your opening style, pardner, but you do have great posts!), xara, lukaszd, Solamente, Doug, whizzper, Father Steve, kummini, HouseWolf, des, Rusty, Nuntius, and doru. Avy, belMarduk, Bridget, juanmaria, paulb, and Rouspeteur, I am assuming you all will continue to return and post as able. NicholasW and Scribbler, I don't CARE if you're able--just make more posts, willya?
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Take a deep breath, Musick.
No street-brawl is necessary, or appropriate -- hence I gave you the courtesy of quoting your remarks, which I consider intemperate, without attributing them to you.
You accuse me of mis-quoting you, and invite me to post your entire PM. Are you sure you want all the rest of your PM posted in public?
You say, "It is out of due respect for tsuwm, Jackie, MaxQ, WOW, wwh, Faldage, Mav, BYB, CapK, AnnaS, JazzO... that I suggest creating a context to understand in by taking it upon oneself to study the history here."
You are entitled to your opinion, musick, but you are not entitled to speak for them. To each of the above-named eleven: please PM me if you feel I have shown lack of respect, in which case, in the interest of avoiding conflict, I shall regretfully but willingly join Brandon and Rubrick.
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