Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
#37713 - 08/07/01 04:15 AM Q. about a Phrase!  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8
Marigold Offline
stranger
Marigold  Offline
stranger

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8
Hi, Wordsmithies! I am so excited to be a part of this little corner of life. This is my first post, so am all aquiver! My question is as follows. Does anyone know the origin of the phrase "Grapes of Wrath"? Thanks! I have to try one of these faces now...



Marigold
#37714 - 08/07/01 05:10 AM Re: Q. about a Phrase!  
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
Geoff Offline
old hand
Geoff  Offline
old hand

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
Portland,Oregon, USA
Does anyone know the origin of the phrase "Grapes of Wrath"?

The Battle Hymn of The Republic, Steinbeck, and the 14th chapter of Revelation. Past that, I dunno. However, there are lots of car wrecks out here in the wine country of Oregon, soooo.....


#37715 - 08/07/01 12:27 PM Re: Q. about a Phrase!  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 275
wordcrazy Offline
enthusiast
wordcrazy  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 275
Marigold
The color is intentional.
Welcome, from one "quite new" also.
You show a lot of promise.
I am at work right now, not goofing off (?) but accidentally(?) came early so has time for this greeting. I will await answers to your query. I know you will get satisfaction.


#37716 - 08/07/01 12:59 PM Re: Q. about a Phrase!  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel
wwh  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Hi Geoff! Long time no see! With your clue as to Revelations 14, I looked it up.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city,
because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without
mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone
in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth,
and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.



#37717 - 08/08/01 01:26 AM Re: Q. about a Phrase!  
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
Geoff Offline
old hand
Geoff  Offline
old hand

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
Portland,Oregon, USA
And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth,
and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.


You got it, Dr. Bill! As far as I know, them's the original grapes of wrath. Anybody know better?

BTW, Marigold, what made you ask the question? You've piqued my interest!


#37718 - 08/08/01 03:49 AM Re: Q. about a Phrase!  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8
Marigold Offline
stranger
Marigold  Offline
stranger

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8
Hi! It was rather timely....I had just registered for AWAD so that I could peruse the bulletin board, when a co-worker asked me that question. Since I didn't know the answer, I told him I knew the perfect place to ask! Thanks for the answers! I knew I could count on you-all!



Marigold
#37719 - 08/09/01 08:26 PM Re: Q. about a Phrase!  
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
wow  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
New England, USA
Welcome Marigold, and do put your inquisitive co-worker onto us, too ...we have plenty of room for people like you and your chum i.e. people with inquiring minds


#37720 - 08/11/01 10:20 PM Re: Q. about a Phrase!  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Keiva Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Keiva  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
What an interesting question. Thank you, Marigold.

I'm unclear what the metaphor "grapes of wrath" means, in the Battle Hymn line, "the Lord/He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored." Are grapes stored in a "vintage" and are they "trampled" there?

The bible doesn't seem to use the phrase "grapes of wrath". WWH noted a bible metaphor that makes much more sense (winepress of the wrath of God), were divine wrath is the active force (winepress), not passive (trampled grapes).

Could "grapes of wrath" be a mixed metaphor that Howe originated when she wrote her Civil War Hymn? Clues:
--- Isaiah 5:1-7 (shortened) "My wellbeloved hath a vineyard and planted it with the choicest vine, and yet it brought forth wild grapes. Judge I pray you betwixt me and my vineyard. What could have been done more, that I have not done in it, that it should bring forth wild grapes? I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will lay it to waste. The vineyard of the Lord is the house of Israel, and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry."
--- Per a Lincoln biographer: A contemporary battle hymn begins with Isaiah 64:4, and then mirrors the vineyard image: "tread down God's grapes, till blood / Unto your horses' bridles hath out the winepress flowed! The day of vengeance dawns, the day of wrath of God. His soul is marching on."
--- Same biographer: while Howe watched soldiers marching by and singing, her companion suggested she write better words to the same marching tune. "When she woke at dawn the next morning lines and stanzas came to her as she lay in bed half dreaming that she was the voice of the nation. She sprang from the bed and wrote in a dim grey twilight, not daring to light the lamp, as it would wake her baby sleeping in its crib."


#37721 - 08/22/01 11:50 PM Re: Q. about a Phrase!  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 157
francais31415 Offline
member
francais31415  Offline
member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 157
her companion suggested she write better words to the same marching tune

I wonder what the original lyrics were?


#37722 - 08/23/01 01:19 AM Re: Q. about a Phrase!  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Keiva Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Keiva  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
better words to the same marching tune
I wonder what the original lyrics were?


John Brown's body lies a'moldering in the grave,
John Brown's body lies a'moldering in the grave,
John Brown's body lies a'moldering in the grave,
But his truth goes marching on!


Ugh. If memory serves, John Brown was a hero/martyr of the Abolishists -- and a kook of the first order.

I'm not sure if the tune originated there, though. In the movie versions of the Scopes Monkey Trial (Inherit the Wind?), the crowd of torch-carrying rednecks sings the same tune, with different words.

Anyone know where the tune started?


Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Jackie 

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,878
Posts223,922
Members9,021
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Dilys, Abishek, Rogerdoctor, SquareDonut, WonderW
9021 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (wofahulicodoc), 57 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters(All Time)
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,538
LukeJavan8 8,978
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2017 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.015s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 2.7295 MB (Peak: 2.8642 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2017-09-25 04:27:02 UTC