|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 427
addict
|
OP
addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 427 |
I keep coming across the word "acknowledgement" spelled as "acknowledgment". I am told that they are both correct, but somehow I hadn't seen (or noticed) the second spelling until recently. Is one more frequent than the other? Or is it a matter of geographical preference? And why the two different spellings? Which one do y'all use? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Marianna: My dictionary gives both forms with identical definition. No clue as to when the "e" omission began. I think I will stick with using the "e" after the "g". I don't remember ever seeing the short form in print before. Perhaps it follows precedent of "judgment" vs "judgement".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
From the langscape project's results:
Most interesting among all the responses on suffixed words were those for words ending in -ment, where usage in some places is inclined to remove the medial e, at least in acknowledgment and judgment. This runs counter to the general rule for suffixes beginning with a consonant (whereby the e is retained as in advertisement). However legal usage has long preferred judgment. The overall response was an endorsement of the rule by large majorities: abridgement (80%), acknowledgement (73%), judgement (76%), lodgement (83%). The publishers' common practice of titling their "acknowledgments" page with the e-less form seems therefore to be out of step with a large body of English users. The responses from England, L2 Europeans and from Australians were all alike on this; however American respondents stood apart in their preference for e-less forms. If you want to take part in the project the on-line component is at: http://www.shlrc.mq.edu.au/langques/Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393 |
I've never known which are more common in these pairs; I've always used -dge- on philological grounds: in Old English the J sound was represented cg, as in ecg. In the transition to modern spelling this became not edg but edge; i.e. it was the softening effect of the -e that was perceived as giving g its affricate (soft) sound.
The d therefore just strengthens the consonant, like the t in match. For this reason I hold that the group dg by itself is not pronounced J.
This reason is not very weighty, but I have to decide one way or the other, and that's how I do.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 427
addict
|
|
OP
addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 427 |
This is really interesting! It's great to have so many different people and ideas on the board, as then you get answers that come from every perspective. So it turns out that European speakers of English and their antipodeans are the ones to spell with an "e", while Usamericans (what about Canadians?) prefer not to have the "e". The philological explanation makes sense... I think I understand that the *orthodox pronunciation for a "dg" cluster with no "e" would normally be a hard /g/ and not /dz/? Nicholas, I see that you are in London. Maybe you can solve what is one of life's great unanswerable mysteries for me. How do you spell and pronounce "Edgware Road"? Thanks for all the other words I hadn't thought of. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393 |
Edgware always gives me pause. I've just had to hunt around and confirm on a tube map that both places are Edgware: that station itself, a distant north-western suburb; and also Edgware Road, an inner station near Paddington on the road which leads out towards Edgware.
Prononciation is simple edge + ware/wear/where.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
what about Canadians?I think I like the look better with the "e", but I honesly don't remember what I was taught in school. In general Canadian spelling follows British spelling with two major exceptions: we prefer "z" instead of "s" in words like "analyze", and we don't use the extra squished-together vowels (what are they called?) in words like "fetus" and "estivate". But we do use the extra "u" in all those "our" words like colour, tumour, honour, etc. So Canadian spelling is not entirely like either British or American, it is something all its own.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
I am wondering if the loss in popularity of the dipthong ("squished-together vowels" - a delightfully apt description! ) is, at least in part, due to the relative difficulty in producing them on word processing software. They are fairly rare in English, anyway, so the temptation to reduce them to a single vowel is quite intense. If this is so, it is rather a pity, as yet another example of how our culture is increasingly being defined by our technology. A probable second reason - and one which was apparent before the advent of mass-PC/Mac ownership - is uncertainty among many people of how to pronounce words with dipthongs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2
stranger
|
|
stranger
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2 |
As a life-long resident of the United States, I cast a vote for the extra 'e', for the pronunciation reasons given before. As far as dipthongs go, I'd rather have back the runic characters for 'th'.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>...I'd rather have back the runic characters for 'th'.
here you go Þen: þÞ
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
the dipthong ("squished-together vowels"...)
Or ligatures as US'ns sometimes Foolishly call them. We useta call them bind-runes, but that was way long ago.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
here you go Þen: þÞ
Not to mention Ð and ð.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
I'm with Bean on this, so we now have both the English Canadian contingent and the French Canadian contingent. I was taught to add the 'e' or else the 'g' would have to be pronounced as a hard 'g' as in growl and glow instead of a soft 'g' as in gem and Ginette  .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
a soft 'g' as in gem and GinettePerish the thought we should ever overlook that soft G spot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
[gentle-reminder e] .. .and it's pronounced "diFthong." Oh, and Æ isn't one of them. The long A sound is. I guess Faldage's "ligature" is the right word for the written convention.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
"Perish the thought we should ever overlook that soft G spot "
Dear Maverick: You can't see it without a speculum, and it is not labelled.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
...and it is not labelled.Well, not visually, but perhaps auditorily? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
we covered this long, long ago (a year? ) and i think we agreed that ligiture was the printers term. you can also use a ligiture for the cross bars of a double ff as in griffin, or for a double tt as in batter. so ligitures are not quite the same thing as diphthongs. (this font does a ligiture for F but not for T--oops yes it does when bold.. but not plain. tt.)
and why is Æ not one? Ætna is not a long A sound (etna)-- (butÆsops is A-sops.). so is æ a diphthohg some of the time?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
I agree with Helen, æ and similar characters are ligatures. Where two vowel sounds are pronounced together in a single syllable, e.g., hair, they make a diphthong. Where two letters are pronounced as a single sound, e.g., t and h is this, they are a digraph
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055 |
Where two letters are pronounced as a single sound, e.g., t and h is this, they are a digraph
Hence, æ is a ligature and a digraph!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609 |
Many years ago IBM had amongst its internal fora, one labelled nitpickers. I came across it again the other day, but haven't delved deep into its archives (yet). One discussion which raged back and forth was whether "ij" in Dutch was really a "y" with a double dot diacritic or vice versa, and which came first, and whether the printers separated/joined it for convenience and what the diacritic on the "y" should be called. I can't remember what the answer was now, so I'll just have to delve into the archives  . Rod
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Rod,
I just call it an umlauted y and can tell you from experience it's a triphthong so dangerous you don't want to try to pronounce it. I tried once and ended up in the hospital for a week.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
ASp tried once and ended up in the hospital for a week.
Restraining mÿself
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
I'm not sure whether a ligature could also be a digraph. Depends whether you think the ligature makes them one letter, I suppose.
Why does the ligature character I used on the computer at work (by copying and pasting from Helen's post) look like an Arabic letter at home?
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609 |
Why does the ligature character I used on the computer at work (by copying and pasting from Helen's post) look like an Arabic letter at home?Probably because you are using different codepages and character sets on the two machines. Most PCs use a Single Byte Character Set which means that at any one time, it can display up to 256 characters (or less because some are reserved for control. Each application has to tell the Operating system (Win98 or whatever) the character Set context, so the OS can use the correct transforms when building the displayed characters. When you cut and paste, the context is often lost. Sometimes that doesn't matter, othertimes it does. We can take it offline if you want a really technical discussion about SBCS, DBCS, MBCS, Unicode, and the like Rod
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
I know, i know! Bingley!
I presume you copied the æ or the Æ. These where created by using the Alt key and code (which must be typed in on the keypad--not the numbers above the letter board) .
To learn which code, produces which charactrer, use the character map in Windows.
---Start--> Run--> (type in charmap) hit run.
the character map window will open. if you select a character, in the lower right hand corner of the character map, you will find the ALT + #### the number will change with each font and each character.
I used ALT + 0230 to create my æ.
The character maps are assigned to fonts-- if your home computer doesn't have the same fonts-- it could have ALT + 0230 assigned to an other font-- and you would get an other character!
If you frequently use special characters, you can assign a short cut to the character map, and have it on your desk top all the time.. Or you can memorize the charactor codes you use frequently -- or make up a cheat sheet of frequently used charactors.. What ever works..
Edit: as AnnaS points out-- the above instructions are for Windows based PC's
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
option + "
Edit: Thank you, Helen.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 387
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 387 |
æ
Oh, now I get it. I've had it explained to me before, but I always assumed that you used the top row.
How do you make it a capital æ?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
ò
EDIT: hummmmm
æ
... ahhhh ....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Good one, Max!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Copy and paste the following. For best viewing pleasure use a fixed font. Note: Some characters may not appear in all fonts; I use Courier New Regular. Characters are gotten (with a PC) by using the ALT-0nnn sequence, where nnn is the decimal value given in column 2.
+----+-----+---+------------------------------------------------------
|Hex | Dec |Car| Description ISO/IEC 10646-1:1993(E)
+----+-----+---+------------------------------------------------------
| 80 | 128 | € |Euro
| 81 | 129 | |
| 82 | 130 | ‚ |
| 83 | 131 | ƒ | Function
| 84 | 132 | „ |
| 85 | 133 | … | ellipsis
| 86 | 134 | † | Dagger
| 87 | 135 | ‡ | Double dagger
| 88 | 136 | ˆ | Carat
| 89 | 137 | ‰ | Per mil sign
| 8A | 138 | Š | Checked Capital S
| 8B | 139 | ‹ | Less than sign
| 8C | 140 | Π| LATIN CAPITAL LIGATURE OE
| 8D | 141 | |
| 8E | 142 | Ž | checked Cap Z
| 8F | 143 | |
| | | |
| 90 | 144 | |
| 91 | 145 | ' |
| 92 | 146 | ' |
| 93 | 147 | " |
| 94 | 148 | " |
| 95 | 149 | • |Bullet
| 96 | 150 | - |
| 97 | 151 | - |
| 98 | 152 | ˜ |
| 99 | 153 | ™ | Trade Mark Sign
| 9A | 154 | š | checked lower case s
| 9B | 155 | › | Greater than sign
| 9C | 156 | œ | LATIN SMALL LIGATURE OE
| 9D | 157 | |
| 9E | 158 | ž | Checked lower case z
| 9F | 159 | Ÿ | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Y WITH DIÆRESIS
| | | |
| A0 | 160 | | NO-BREAK SPACE
| A1 | 161 | ¡ | INVERTED EXCLAMATION MARK
| A2 | 162 | ¢ | CENT SIGN
| A3 | 163 | £ | POUND SIGN
| A4 | 164 | ¤ | CURRENCY SIGN
| A5 | 165 | ¥ | YEN SIGN
| A6 | 166 | ¦ | BROKEN BAR
| A7 | 167 | § | SECTION SIGN
| A8 | 168 | ¨ | DIAERESIS
| A9 | 169 | © | COPYRIGHT SIGN
| AA | 170 | ª | FEMININE ORDINAL INDICATOR
| AB | 171 | « | LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK
| AC | 172 | ¬ | NOT SIGN
| AD | 173 | | SOFT HYPHEN
| AE | 174 | ® | REGISTERED SIGN
| AF | 175 | ¯ | MACRON
| | | |
| B0 | 176 | ° | DEGREE SIGN
| B1 | 177 | ± | PLUS-MINUS SIGN
| B2 | 178 | ² | SUPERSCRIPT TWO
| B3 | 179 | ³ | SUPERSCRIPT THREE
| B4 | 180 | ´ | ACUTE ACCENT
| B5 | 181 | µ | MICRO SIGN
| B6 | 182 | ¶ | PILCROW SIGN
| B7 | 183 | · | MIDDLE DOT
| B8 | 184 | ¸ | CEDILLA
| B9 | 185 | ¹ | SUPERSCRIPT ONE
| BA | 186 | º | MASCULINE ORDINAL INDICATOR
| BB | 187 | » | RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK
| BC | 188 | 1/4 | VULGAR FRACTION ONE QUARTER
| BD | 189 | 1/2 | VULGAR FRACTION ONE HALF
| BE | 190 | 3/4 | VULGAR FRACTION THREE QUARTERS
| BF | 191 | ¿ | INVERTED QUESTION MARK
+----+-----+---+------------------------------------------------------
+----+-----+---+------------------------------------------------------
|Hex | Dec |Car| Description ISO/IEC 10646-1:1993(E)
+----+-----+---+------------------------------------------------------
| C0 | 192 | À | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| C1 | 193 | Á | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| C2 | 194 | Â | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| C3 | 195 | Ã | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH TILDE
| C4 | 196 | Ä | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
| C5 | 197 | Å | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH RING ABOVE
| C6 | 198 | Æ | LATIN CAPITAL LIGATURE AE
| C7 | 199 | Ç | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA
| C8 | 200 | È | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| C9 | 201 | É | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| CA | 202 | Ê | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| CB | 203 | Ë | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E WITH DIAERESIS
| CC | 204 | Ì | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| CD | 205 | Í | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| CE | 206 | Î | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| CF | 207 | Ï | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH DIAERESIS
| | | |
| D0 | 208 | Ð | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER ETH
| D1 | 209 | Ñ | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER N WITH TILDE
| D2 | 210 | Ò | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| D3 | 211 | Ó | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| D4 | 212 | Ô | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| D5 | 213 | Õ | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH TILDE
| D6 | 214 | Ö | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS
| D7 | 215 | × | MULTIPLICATION SIGN
| D8 | 216 | Ø | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH STROKE
| D9 | 217 | Ù | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| DA | 218 | Ú | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| DB | 219 | Û | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| DC | 220 | Ü | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS
| DD | 221 | Ý | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Y WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| DE | 222 | Þ | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER THORN
| DF | 223 | ß | LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S
| | | |
| E0 | 224 | à | LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| E1 | 225 | á | LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| E2 | 226 | â | LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| E3 | 227 | ã | LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH TILDE
| E4 | 228 | ä | LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
| E5 | 229 | å | LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH RING ABOVE
| E6 | 230 | æ | LATIN SMALL LIGATURE AE
| E7 | 231 | ç | LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA
| E8 | 232 | è | LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| E9 | 233 | é | LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| EA | 234 | ê | LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| EB | 235 | ë | LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH DIAERESIS
| EC | 236 | ì | LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| ED | 237 | í | LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| EE | 238 | î | LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| EF | 239 | ï | LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH DIAERESIS
| | | |
| F0 | 240 | ð | LATIN SMALL LETTER ETH
| F1 | 241 | ñ | LATIN SMALL LETTER N WITH TILDE
| F2 | 242 | ò | LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| F3 | 243 | ó | LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| F4 | 244 | ô | LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| F5 | 245 | õ | LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH TILDE
| F6 | 246 | ö | LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS
| F7 | 247 | ÷ | DIVISION SIGN
| F8 | 248 | ø | LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH OBLIQUE BAR
| F9 | 249 | ù | LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| FA | 250 | ú | LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| FB | 251 | û | LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| FC | 252 | ü | LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS
| FD | 253 | ý | LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| FE | 254 | þ | LATIN SMALL LETTER THORN
| FF | 255 | ÿ | LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH DIAERESIS
+----+-----+---+------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Faldage: thanks for the big addition to the character creation capability.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
Blessings on all of you who are using all that stuff, and doing it correctly. For myself, I will just go happily along, relying on the brilliance of others on the Board to understand ... 'cause all that ALT+ stuff is just way too much work. It's all I can do to keep up with the main categories! So ... good for all of you who use the advanced stuff, and to those who gererously share their knowledge but I remain unreconstructed .....
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,373
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
189
guests, and
2
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
