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Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread #3564 - 06/19/00 11:30 AM first floor   Joined: Apr 2000 Posts: 3,065 Bingley Carpal Tunnel Bingley   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Apr 2000 Posts: 3,065 Jakarta My next Barnaby Rudge question is this: Dickens uses first floor to mean what in modern UK usage would be called the ground floor. When did we change? Does the OED, which I don't have access to over here, help? Bingley Bingley #3565 - 06/19/00 07:56 PM Re: first floor   Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,981 jmh Pooh-Bah jmh   Pooh-Bah Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,981 That is very interesting. I've never noticed it before. #3566 - 06/19/00 08:35 PM Re: first floor   Joined: Apr 2000 Posts: 10,538 tsuwm Carpal Tunnel tsuwm   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Apr 2000 Posts: 10,538 this too shall pass Maybe the answer to this will also explain why we are different in the first (ground?) place on this one -- I hope it has nothing to do with 'ground zero'! #3567 - 06/19/00 11:39 PM Re: first floor   Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 140 lusy member lusy   member Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 140 Melbourne, Australia >When did we change? My rather elderly Shorter Oxford gives the following: First-floor. 1663. 1. The floor next above the ground floor 1865. 2. The ground floor. Now only U.S. I guess the given dates are relevant, but I'm not quite sure how to interpret them. Presumably 1865 is the first citation regarding the Brits having moved their first floor up one. lusy #3568 - 06/19/00 11:43 PM Re: first floor   Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 140 lusy member lusy   member Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 140 Melbourne, Australia >When did we change? Oops! Please delete "says" in the above! Har, har! I already did! 'Cos Jackie told me how … thanks Jackie! And I changed this one too, as you can see. But of course you can't now, can you. Good grief, this is as bad as those time travel paradoxes! lusy #3569 - 06/20/00 04:38 AM Re: first floor   Joined: Apr 2000 Posts: 3,065 Bingley Carpal Tunnel Bingley   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Apr 2000 Posts: 3,065 Jakarta Well, Barnaby Rudge was written in 1841, so 1865 for a first citation would make sense, but surely it didn't happen overnight. There must have been a period of considerable confusion. Bingley Bingley #3570 - 06/20/00 05:56 AM Re: first floor   Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,981 jmh Pooh-Bah jmh   Pooh-Bah Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,981 I suppose it wasn't really an issue until they invented the lift (elevator) - I can imagine someone calling out in frustration, "So what letters do you want me to put on the buttons then!". #3571 - 06/21/00 07:41 AM Re: first floor   Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,027 wsieber old hand wsieber   old hand Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,027 Switzerland The change probably happened when the elevator-makers expanded their business from Great Britain to the European Continent. German "Stock" and French "Etage" intrinsically mean a plane above the ground, so "1.Stock" never meant anything else than the first "elevated" floor. #3572 - 06/21/00 02:15 PM Re: first floor   Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,981 jmh Pooh-Bah jmh   Pooh-Bah Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,981 So it was a early example of British-European convergence. The next big change was probably when we measured the size of the lift buttons in centimetres. Moderated by  Jackie  Hop To General Topics ------   Information and announcements   Q&A about words   Wordplay and fun   Words and languages in schools   Miscellany   Weekly Themes   Looking for (writers, speakers, ...) (Old) Weekly themes. (have been consolidated into a single forum above) ------   Words from medicine   Beheading words   Meta-words   Words from classical mythology   Animal Safari   Words with unusual etymologies   Eponyms or words derived from people's names.   Loanwords from German   English as a global language Print Thread Switch to Threaded Mode View Profile Send Private Message Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message View Homepage Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message Follow User Show Forum Posts Forum Statistics Forums16 Topics13,881 Posts224,663 Members9,048 Most Online3,341 Dec 9th, 2011 Newest Members Sammy87, Bentron2000, Santanu, DavidOrigami, RichEngle 9048 Registered Users Who's Online Now 0 registered members (), 93 guests, and 3 spiders. Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod Top Posters(30 Days) wofahulicodoc 50 A C Bowden 26 LukeJavan8 10 may2point0 3 SantaFeR 1 Top Posters(All Time) wwh 13,858 Faldage 13,803 Jackie 11,613 tsuwm 10,538 LukeJavan8 9,120 wofahulicodoc 7,884 Buffalo Shrdlu 7,210 AnnaStrophic 6,511 Wordwind 6,296 of troy 5,400

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