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Democracy, government of the people, by the people, and for the people, is only as good as the governed demand. As recent elections in several places around the globe have illustrated, this leaves a lot to be desired. However, until we invent a better system, it is the best one can get. The presidential race in the US is heating up too and is being closely watched by the citizens of the world. For better or worse, the results of this contest will have repercussions everywhere. Later this year we'll know whether Bush gets gored or Gore gets bushed. In the meanwhile, enjoy this week's words (all of them selected by a single vote  ) about government, politics, and elections.
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Here's a good place to talk about politics, guys. Pulled from the bottom of the last page, too.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear jimthedog: Congratulations on a neat solution to a problem that was becoming a bit unfriendly.
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Hey, AnnaS would be proud of you for this, jimthedog!
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Great, jimthedog! A new home for non-word political diatribes! 'Cause trying to keep up with all the assorted outbursts on various threads leaves me feeling really bushed!
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And now that we're here, there's so little being said. Kind of like when we went on vacations as a little kid. The urge to use the bathroom only hit after we drove down the freeway's on-ramp and not three minutes earlier when we were at the rest stop.
(have I subconsciously tied together using the toilet and talking politics?)
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Aw, hell, then let's get it going again!: RONALD REAGAN RUINED AMERICA!!! 
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> RONALD REAGAN RUINED AMERICA!!!
If so, then Mr Bush is taping C4 to the last standing columns :-)
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OK, you want some more C4 - here's a question about the language of international politics: Is a fascist still correctly called a fascist, or an assassin still called an assassin, even when they are agents of a 'friendly' (nameless Middle East) government? sorry, Max!
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> agents of a 'friendly' (nameless Middle East) government?
boy, that would start a good one if shoshannah (sp?) was still around!
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mmmmm! [you'd never guess I have Jewish blood in my maverick veins!]
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On the other hand, or side, is a "martyr" still a martyr when he dies blowing up complete strangers in a crowded marketplace, or children on a schoolbus?
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No, I totally agree with you Bob. Actually the serious point that underlies my smartass question is this: if truth and other high values on which civilised society depends are to have credible meaning, does it not mean it is imperative that all men and women of sensitivity stay on rigorous guard against the depradation of debased language? In particular, loaded value judgements should be resisted unless thay are clear and overt. For example, in my personal system of belief, when the IRA blow up defenceless people without regard to their creed, colour, beliefs or even basic humanity, they are performing an act of irredeemable evil and the term murderer is the only fitting one to use. Conversely, when the UK government sends marksmen to shoot down Irish civilians on the rock of Gibralter in cold blood, in my view they too are committing callous murder. There is no escape from the language. There must be no escape. When a Palestinian kills and maims other human beings, it is an abhorrent act that should be denounced as murder; when Israeli agents or armed forces perform the same illegal acts it should carry exactly the same label.
Personally, I also feel the evil done by states is always more reprehensible still, because they owe, through the custodianship of power, a greater duty of care to all those living within the ambit of the exercise of such power. Which is just where I hoped to challenge some interesting discussion...
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I appreciate what you are saying, Mav. Funny, I had recently decided I wouldn't touch a topic in this forum with a ten-foot pole. But your angle is one I do have a comment on.
We know how to handle/punish individuals for crimes (or at least most civilized nations have statutes that do their best). How are nations punished for thier crimes? As a USn, I do feel at least some culpability for what my nation does to other nations, to our own citizens, to the environment, etc..
In short, we have a word for a matyr, an assassin, a murderer, and so forth. But what do we call that system that produces these en masse or leads them to battle? And what are these people themselves guilty of? Patriotism?
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Mav...Amen! Any random act of violence that targets innocent people in the guise of any so-called "cause," be it nationalistic, racial, religious, tribal, or class, is cold-blooded murder, pure and simple! No qualifiers here...no excuses! And is equally repulsive...whomever, wherever, however!  On a lighter note: Al Gored returned from Europe today sporting a full beard!
See his beard?
Ain't it weird?
Don't be sceared,
It's just a beard.
--George Carlin (I have to admit, Al's beard does look sublimely ridiculous!) 
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standing shoulder-to-shoulder...
Just retrieved this quote which should also be familiar to our brethren & sistren hereAWADabouts:
If thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought.
George Orwell (1903-1950)
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In reply to:
In short, we have a word for a martyr, an assassin, a murderer, and so forth. But what do we call that system that produces these en masse or leads them to battle? And what are these people themselves guilty of? Patriotism?
One such system was called National Socialism. At Nuremburg, it was decided that those people were guilty of murder and other "crimes against humanity" and they were punished accordingly. There are trials now going on at The Hague, and someone was sentenced just this week, for the same thing.
There are two difficulties with this, however. The first is that it is seldom possible to bring such culprits to book. Pol Pot and his unspeakable cohorts were and have never been held accountable or punished for their incredible crimes against the Cambodians, and there are plenty of other examples of totally inhuman behavior unpunished, as in the Sudan, Afghanistan, etc. The other difficulty is that it is often a question of who wins a war. If Hitler had won the war, or even been able to negotiate some kind of armistice, there would, of course, have been no Nuremburg trials and he would have gotten away with what is arguably the worst conduct in the history of the world.
There is no escaping the inevitable observation that much depends on whose ox is gored. The Civil War / War Between the States, was fought by one side motivated (at least in part) by a zeal to right the terrible wrong of slavery; while the other side saw themselves as defending their right to secede from the Union if the rest of the states refused to cease meddling in affairs which the various states had an exclusive right to decide without interference from the federal government. When all reasonable efforts to settle this controversy politically had been exhausted, a resort to arms was inevitable. And when the war was over, there were those who wanted to treat Lee and Davis in the same way the US treated the surviving Nazis; but, fortunately for us, cooler and wiser heads prevailed.
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Yes--but
Lee house and grounds, Arlington-- was made into a cemetary-- the dead of the war where burried at his door steps.
Lee was offered the command of the Union army at the begining of the war-- but felt he must be true to his state..
historians have pointed out a language shift-- before the civil war the common phrase was "these United States" after the war it was "The United States" -- and the idea of a national identity was formed.. no longer citizens of New York or Virginia, we became citizens of the United States..
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But, don't forget, had the Confederacy won the war, Gen. Sherman would have been tried as a war criminal for the merciless murder, rape, and pillage he and his troops wreaked on private property and innocent civilians on his famous March to the Sea. An unheard-of barbarism in those days when their centuries old "rules of war" still stipulated the engagement of only military forces on the field of battle.
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Shoshannah has a good job that keeps her very busy. I get an occasional e-mail from her with URLs to the latest Palestinian atrocity. And the dittos of our State Department and CIA.
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>And does she also supply URLs to the latest Israeli atrocity?
nope. she's taking on the western press singlehandedly.
8-)
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the pernicious Palestinian propagandists?LOL Max! Yes, you are so right, they *are such devious swine, so *articulate, so well *funded, and with so *many highly paid lobbyists working throughout the administration of the Empire...! Really, it's amazing, when most of them don't even have access to their own water or access to employment or education or any of the other frills of life
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> As a USn, I do feel at least some culpability
Then living in the US should provide ample punishment for paying to your warmongering nation to attack at a whim, in order to maintain face and/or decent economic growth rates.
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But those poor, dear persecuted Palestinians blew up a plane twenty years ago and killed the daughter of my best friend.
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bill, the sister-in-law of a good friend of mine was a steward(ess) on that plane. that's the 'small world' side of the story. the rest of the story involves my friend, a Basque, and how this turn of events affected his outlook on nationalist/separatist movements.
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