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re: defs of faith #30762
06/07/01 06:10 PM
06/07/01 06:10 PM
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IL
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Bryan Hayward Offline OP
journeyman
Bryan Hayward  Offline OP
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Maverick,

Thanks for that - but my contention rests on the connotations and not the denotations. The reporter's use of the term "purest faith" certainly adds punch to the "belief not based on evidence" definition - such terms are used when speaking of religion and not economics. While it may be argued, perhaps successfully ;-), that money is the US' religion, I don't think that was the context in which she was writing.

Certainly, the "faith of a mustard seed needed to move a mountain" is a far less tangible thing than the confidence in a very large earth-mover to accomplish the same thing. (sidebar - ever see one of those monsters?? They're friggin huge, and to call them "bulldozers" is like calling the Grand Canyon a "big valley".)

Cheers,
Bryan



Cheers,
Bryan

You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be.
Re: "Anchorite" demonstrative quote #30763
06/08/01 02:48 AM
06/08/01 02:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618
Australia
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doc_comfort Offline
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doc_comfort  Offline
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Australia
And where do the French fit into all of this?

[hoping-people-understand-the-very-poor-pun-emoticon]


Re: "Anchorite" demonstrative quote #30764
06/09/01 02:16 PM
06/09/01 02:16 PM
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Posts: 1,094
Cincinnati & Loveland, Ohio, U...
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Jazzoctopus Offline
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Cincinnati & Loveland, Ohio, U...
I'm not sure how much this will help in this little discussion, but I read an interesting debate a few days ago on the existence of God (http://members.truepath.com/CICweb/debate_Russell_index.html) and the negative defined 8 ways that we decide things. He said in order of importance they were logic, reason, confidence, trust, chance, obedience, hope and faith. He later went on to say that if you want to cross a 3-lane highway during rush hour you could use some of these methods:

(1) Reason. Look before crossing, believe the evidence of your eyes, and don't go until you see a break in the traffic (or until congestion brings it to a complete standstill).

(2) Trust. Accept my personal testimony that it will be safe to cross between 4:56:09 and 4:56:21 PM and go then.

(3) Faith. Eliminate all sensory input (too distracting for the truly faithful). Instead, plug your ears with wax, close your eyes and apply a blindfold, and just step out smartly at some random time, having faith that God will enable you to cross unscathed.


This probably has nothing to do with this discussion, but it does show that there's quite a difference between confidence and faith.



#30765
06/09/01 06:39 PM
06/09/01 06:39 PM
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Posts: 3,409
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Max Quordlepleen Offline
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Re: "Anchorite" demonstrative quote #30766
06/09/01 09:48 PM
06/09/01 09:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Chicago
musick Offline
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musick  Offline
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Thank you, Max!

[applause-e]


Re: "Anchorite" demonstrative quote #30767
06/11/01 12:29 AM
06/11/01 12:29 AM
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maverick Offline
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As someone whose existence is wrapped up in his complete lack of 'faith' as an adherence to a creed, but rather a 'faith' in the perfectability of my fellow poissons, I applaud Max's humanity. I like Jazz's statement of that argument - but ultimately I think it has the meretricous appeal of much reductio ad absurdum argument.

However, it does, I agree, tend to illuminate a difference in the ways we tend to think about these different kinds of confidence or belief or hope or....


#30768
06/11/01 12:32 AM
06/11/01 12:32 AM
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Max Quordlepleen Offline
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Re: "Anchorite" demonstrative quote #30769
06/11/01 12:34 AM
06/11/01 12:34 AM
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maverick Offline
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Just a few loaves, and thee beside me in the wildernesss...


#30770
06/11/01 12:42 AM
06/11/01 12:42 AM
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Max Quordlepleen Offline
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Just so. #30771
06/11/01 12:03 PM
06/11/01 12:03 PM
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Posts: 69
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Bryan Hayward Offline OP
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Bryan Hayward  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 69
IL
This example is very pertinent, and clearly demonstrates the difference between faith and confidence.

Cheers,
Bryan



Cheers,
Bryan

You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be.
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