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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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A while ago, somebody posed a question regarding the origination of military rank names (wow, maybe?). A few months earlier, I had looked up a bunch of the terms in a dictionary and had noted the etymologies, but when the question was posed, I couldn't find my notes. So now, I've found my chicken-scratch encryptions, and I can't find the thread where the question was posed.  Anywho - here's a transcription of those notes. general (L, kind) lt general major general brigadier general (F, brigade) colonel (F<L, column) lt colonel major (L, greater than others) captain (L, head) lieutenant (L, to hold instead) (non-coms:) sergeant (ME, common soldier) corporal (F, head) private (L, single) FWIW, lieutenants include: lt commander lt junior and sergeants include: master sergeant sergeant first class staff sergeant and privates include: private first class
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Joined: Nov 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
... and in the British-based armed forces we also have:
warrant officer (hold of the monarch's warrant)
sergeant major (self explanatory based on your definitions)
bosun (boatswain - not sure of the derivation)
able seaman (able to reef, steer and knot, I think ICLIUBIW)
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Sparteye, tsk-tsk. Tut-tut, even 
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
I think bosun, from boatswain, derives from the same root that gives us swain in other contexts, meaning mate - from Old Norse sveinn (someone please correct if this is inaccurate) So referring to 'the Bosun’s mate' was actually saying “the Boat’s Mate’s Mate”, which takes us over the water to the Double Genitive thread. 
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Joined: Nov 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
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captain (L, head)
lieutenant (L, to hold instead)
(non-coms:)
AK-shuly, in decreasing order of rank, Captain, First Lt., Second Lt. for officers
Then Warrant Officer ( called Mister, not Sir)
Then Sgts .
Those are Army ranks ... I'm not sure about Navy.
wow
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Joined: Nov 2000
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
ablebodied seaman = able to hand, reef and steer. already discussed somewhere - YCLIU.
Question: 'Serjeant' was formerly a word for 'barrister' or 'lawyer'. Is this same derivation?
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Pooh-Bah
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OP
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
Question: 'Serjeant' was formerly a word for 'barrister' or 'lawyer'. Is this same derivation?
Webster's Unabridged says that "serjeant" is just a variation of "sergeant," and that "serjeant-at-law" is a barrister of the highest rank, answering to the doctor of the civil law, out-ranking king's counsel socially but in professional rank inferior to them, and until 1846 having the exclusive right to be heard in the Court of Common Pleas.
I'd never heard of the term, and cannot fathom the relationships referred to by Webster. I send out a general call to any British barristers or solicitors. Hullloooo Ruuuumpooole ....
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Joined: Sep 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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In my local village of Eglwyswrw is an ancient inn; it has been there for about 400 years, and stands next to the old courthouse. It is called The Serjeants Inn, and used to have a communicating door for the convenience of poor dessicated lawyers. Thirsty work, this argumentification, ain't it!
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