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While checking out a website today, I learned another ugly yet practical neologism - informatics. Once I read the definition given in an online medical dictionary, I was forced to concede that this is another one of those ungraceful coinages that fill an important niche, like compactified. What interested me was that www.dictionary.com said that the word was chiefly Brit I saw the word on a British website, and on running the word past my spell-checkers, it was accepted without a second glance by the British and Australian spell-checkers installed, but balked at by the American English spell-checker. I mention this by way of a defence against any who say that only Americans are capable of coming up with with truly ugly neologisms. I'm not saying that informatics is up there with prioritise, but it is certainly giving compactified a run for its money. Whoever said that Truth is Beauty had obviously never had to read late 20th/early 21st Century scientific English. 
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Max, While I hate ugly, unnecessary neologisms as much as the next guy, this informatrix is under the impression that informatics is actually® a loan word - from the French, I think. It does fill a niche, if you want single word for computer science. It's also the word for such in Portuguese, and I'd wager it's used in other Latinate languages, as well. This is one case where they managed to lend us a word, in lieu of vice-versa  .
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While I hate ugly, unnecessary neologisms as much as the next guy, this informatrix is under the impression that informatics is actually® a loan word - from the French, I think.
Mercy buckets, StrophicAnna.
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I think you're right Anna. In German, computing also carries the title Informatik. In English we just can't seem to decide what we want to call it. Take your pick:
Computer Science
Information Technology (what a joke)
Information Science
Informatics
In any case, I'm not particularly partial to any of these terms, but I'd be happy if a majority would decide on one!
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The bruising young chappie believes that: Computer Science
Information Technology (what a joke)
Information Science
Informaticsare synonyms. Wrong, sorry. They're technical terms, and all have distinct and quite distinctly different purposes. YCLIU. 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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> are synonyms.
Did I say that?
> ...all have distinct and quite distinctly different purposes
I hit a nerve, huh. Let me just say, that it seems a lot of people are not very happy with these designations, resulting in coinages left, right and centre.
I found this info at dictionary.com:
information science -
The science that is concerned with the gathering, manipulation, classification, storage, and retrieval of recorded knowledge.
information technology -
<business, jargon> (IT) Applied computer systems - both hardware and software, and often including networking and telecommunications, usually in the context of a business or other enterprise. Often the name of the part of an enterprise that deals with all things electronic.
The term "computer science" is usually reserved for the more theoretical, academic aspects of computing, while the vaguer terms "information systems" (IS) or "information services" may include more of the human activities and non-computerised business processes like knowledge management. Others say that IT includes computer science.
Informatics -
Information science.
computer science -
the branch of engineering science that studies (with the aid of computers) computable processes and structures
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The department where I work is named
Dipartimento di Matematica ed Informatica.
The most conservative among the (old) professors didn't like to add "Informatica", since they felt it was like to betray pure Mathematics just to be cool - and to obtain more easily money!
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Our favorite junior Pooh-Bah complains about truly ugly neologisms citing informatics as an example. He goes on to say that he's not saying that informatics is up there with prioritise...
Are you saying that prioritise is uglier than informatics? No, no, no! Informatics has all sharp edges and ugly angles to it; pritoritise is all soft with rounded edges and cleanly flowing lines. Even if you do spell it funny.
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> prioritise
I myself, personally, don't think it's that ugly, but its meaning is certainly not very clear without sufficient context.
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meaning [of prioritise] is certainly not very clear without sufficient context
I don't have a problem with either the meaning, or sound, or usage of either "prioritise" or "informatics".
"Prioritise" means [to me] to allocate a priority to an item/task/etc. relative to others, similar to "categorise".
Rod
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Prioritise is worse than informatics, in my opinion.
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Prioritise is worse than informatics, in my opinion.And an opinion of rare taste and discernment it is. 
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This is one case where they managed to lend us a word, in lieu of vice-versa .
Didn't we borrow quite a bit when the French came over and ruled Britain for a bit at the beginning of the millennium?
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jimdog asks: Didn't we borrow quite a bit when the French came over and ruled Britain for a bit at the beginning of the millennium?
Yeahbut, what have they done for us lately?
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Yeahbut, what have they done for us lately?
Well, for you USns, they did take Jerry Lewis off your hands.
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MaxQ sez: they did take Jerry Lewis off your hands
Good point Max!
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Informatics is NOT a synonym for information science. In foreign languages (e.g. Emanuela's Italian), it conveys a more general idea of "computing", but here it means "the use of computing to organise information", and is used in relation to particular areas, e.g. libraries, medical science, art, etc., where special processes are used to meet the needs of the users in that area.
There may be arguments over their usage, but not within the industry.
We dealt with technical terms in another ("compactified") thread. Arguing over them has no point, they exist and they're in use. Get over it.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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The Gooseberry Duke (Chinese) tells us, regarding technical terms: Arguing over them has no point, they exist and they're in use. Get over it.
Amen, brother!
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We dealt with technical terms in another ("compactified") thread. Arguing over them has no point, they exist and they're in use. Get over it.
Agreed - but acceptance of usage doesn't mean that we have to like it. And saying that you don't like it does make you feel better. As MaxQ kindly said to me IAT, "Tetch away ..."
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We dealt with technical terms in another ("compactified") thread. Arguing over them has no point, they exist and they're in use. Get over it.Then, what are you guys doing here? Yet nobody dealt *much for that BS tech word 'functionality'...  (CK, I'm sure you'll finish varnishing your cupboards before you leave  ) ...acceptance of usage doesn't mean that we have to like it. And saying that you don't like it does make you feel better...Oh, now I know why you're here! 
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Another related point: is it realistic to talk about 'information' at all in computing terms? It often seems to me that it is only signalling - like, say, the electronic equivalent of waving semaphore flags. Nothing becomes genuine information until the human brain deciphers the signal.
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WHY do I want to read informatix as infomatrix?
Is there such a word as infomatrix?
There should be!
Infomatrix : I like it.
Sounds like something the average dunce (like me) can use without too much difficulty!
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wow wonders: WHY do I want to read informatix as infomatrix?
Well, AnnaS *did refer to herself as an informatrix, at least in this informator's admittedly spotty memory.
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“Informática” is the word used in Spain when referring to Information Sciences or any computer-related matter. We call computers “ordenadores” both words have been borrowed from the French.
In South America, however, the equivalent words are “computación” and “computador” clearly borrowed from USA.
Apart of being more familiarized with “informática” it seems to me as more precise than “computación” which could means any kind of calculation with or without information processing involved.
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> it seems to me as more precise than “computación” which could means any kind of calculation with or without information processing involved.
deciding what deserves the title 'information' could get sticky ....
> Nothing becomes genuine information until the human brain deciphers the signal.
You dare to speculate that the term was ill-concieved from the start, Mav? I think perhaps they'll go along with this word until the next fad brings more range.
stop reading here, C.K.
----------------------
Smug Whiffet definition:
Informatics is a widely used industry term, that no one really ever thought through, but, is one which everyone pretends to understand [see the 'Just don't ask' Syndrome], besides it sounds kinda funky and fresh.
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This isn't computer-ese, but could someone please explain this to me anyway? CK?
"The BIG MAC INDEX
The Economist's Big Mac index seeks to make exchange-rate theory more digestible. It is arguably the world's most accurate financial indicator to be based on a fast-food item. For Burgernomics and side-orders click here. "
Burgernomics???
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Jackie,
The Economist has been publishing this quarterly (?) index for the past 20 (??) years. It's your basic down-to-the-bones cost-of-living (price of cheese, price of beef, price of bread) index. Lots of folks swear by it, but I think it has some flaws.... Still, it ain't bad for a synopsis kind of thang.
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It's your basic down-to-the-bones cost-of-living (price of cheese, price of beef, price of bread) index. Lots of folks swear by it, but I think it has some flaws.... Still, it ain't bad for a synopsis kind of thang.
Can you tell me if I understand the basic premise correctly, Anna? The most recent publication of the index was commented on in my local rag, and the story went thusly: A Big Mac should, theoretically, cost the same in US dollars everywhere. If A Big Mac costs less in greenbacks than in the States, that currency is undervalued. If it costs more, it is overvalued. By that reckoning, apparently, the two most undervalued currencies in the developed world are the AUD and the NZD, both undervalued by between 40 and 43%. A Big Mac here costs the equivalent of around $1.51 US. In Switzerland, apparently, it costs around $5 US, making the SFR the most overvalued currency in the Big Mac Index. The authors of the index do say that is intended largely as a lighthearted way of conveying basic trends, and ought not be viewed as Gospel.
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I hadn't paid much heed to this thread, but since I'm posting like a Mad Thing tonight, I thought I would give the ol' OED a looksee; imagine my surprise to find that informatics has been around since 1967 and Russian is given as the etymological source!
[tr. Russ. informátika (A. I. Mikhailov et al. 1966, in Nauchno-tekhnicheskaya Informatsiya XII. 35), f. information: see -ics.]
(See quot. 1967.) Cf. information science (information 8). Hence infor"matical a., informa"tician.
1967 FID News Bull. XVII. 73/2 Informatics is the discipline of science which investigates the structure and properties (not specific content) of scientific information, as well as the regularities of scientific information activity, its theory, history, methodology and organization. 1970 Times 2 Sept. 9 It was agreed+that an introduction to Informatics should form an integral part of general education. 1972 Jrnl. Librarianship IV. 177 The name Informatics satisfies several criteria for the designation of a new discipline. Ibid., Other terms can be derived from it, such as Informatician for a person who is engaged in activities in this field+and the adjective informatical, to describe the attributes of the field. 1973 Times Lit. Suppl. 28 Sept. 1133/1 The problem falls into two parts: the preparation of decisions, which is a matter of informatics, and the making of the decisions themselves, which is a matter of ‘politics’.
(sometimes I wonder about the folks who dig out these citations -- don't they have lives?)
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Since the website where I first saw the word belnogs to one of our own, I will offer the definition provided by an online medical dictionary, appropriate because of the medical context in which it is used at the website in question.Hi, Jo
"The study of the application of computer and statistical techniques to the management of information. In genome projects, informatics includes the development ofmethods to search databases quickly, to analyse DNA sequence information, and to predict proteinsequence and structure fromDNA sequence data."
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Burgermatics is a standing in-joke amongst economists. The funny thing about The Economist's use of the Big Mac index is that it really does reduce the cost of things to terms which almost anybody who can walk and talk at the same time can understand!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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wow wonders: WHY do I want to read informatix as infomatrix?
Well, AnnaS *did refer to herself as an informatrix, at least in this informator's admittedly spotty memory.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I thought AnnS would pronounce it Inform-a-trix
whereas I mean it as Info-matrix.
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the website where I first saw the word belnogs to one of our own
I know this was just a typo, Max, but I rather like it. Do you think these strange belnogs are related to balrogs?
The thought of which reminds me that I can hardly wait until December for The Fellowship of the Ring to come out...
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belnogs
Perhaps Max was thinking of the drink traditionally consumed around the scheduled release date. I share your eagerness, Rapunzel, December can't come soon enough.
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I saw a sneak part-preview. Nyah, nyah! But I didn't see enough to form a firm opinion. Although I think it's going to be okay. The problem is that I (as I assume all of us do) have an mind's-eye view of the characters, and Jackson's ain't the same as mine. I also know one of the actors who got a part as one of the Elven lords (although I haven't seen him for months. He may be visiting Nemo). Plus there are dunnamany people around Wellington who had parts as extras. [sneaks-off-thinking-"It-ain't- what-you-know,-ha-ha!" -e]
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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In reply to:
The problem is that I (as I assume all of us do) have an mind's-eye view of the characters, and Jackson's ain't the same as mine.
I saw an interview with your bearded compatriot(?) in which, once I could understand his accent, he mentioned that very point. He said that since everyone would have their own mental image of the story, it would be the kiss of death for him to attempt to form some sort of amalgam of various views. He felt that the best thing, in fact he said the only thing, he could do was produce a trilogy of films consistent with his own internal vision, and hope that at least some others liked it. I think that it's not a bad philosophy for tackling such a task.
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I saw an interview with your bearded compatriot(?)He is. in which, once I could understand his accent,Sorry, should we all speak American instead of English? he mentioned that very point. He said that since everyone would have their own mental image of the story, it would be the kiss of death for him to attempt to form some sort of amalgam of various views.Whose would he take note of? How many LOTR fans are there? That's how many views he would have to amalgamate! He felt that the best thing, in fact he said the only thing, he could do was produce a trilogy of films consistent with his own internal vision, and hope that at least some others liked it.He's expressed that view many times. Everyone agrees with the philosophy, but, as he fears, that may not make the final result more palatable to some. I think that it's not a bad philosophy for tackling such a task.But it does bring us back to the fundamental question that was being asked at the start of it all - should it have been done at all? And I don't know if I can answer that at this point. As I said, I didn't see enough to be able to actually form an opinion which may be just as well. For me success will depend on the flow of the story, the scenes included and excluded, the emphasis (Hollywoodisation), the direction and the characterisations. The casting of the part of Gandalf was, for me, a mistake. The person who SHOULD have played it given my internalisation of Gandalf was the original Dr Who. Which is not a slur on the actor at all, especially since the actor who played Dr Who is now deceased. I actually don't have a clear mind-picture of Frodo, so that won't matter. Sam Gamgee does. So do Merry and Pippin and Aragorn. Galadriel and Celeborn don't matter. Smeagol does. But that, too, will be different for everyone! So I guess we'll just have to wait and see ...
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in which, once I could understand his accent,
Sorry, should we all speak American instead of English? Goodness me, no! What makes you think that we speak with an American accent here on Tol Eressëa? As to the rest of your comment, I tend to agree. I am eager to see the movie, but am already expecting to be disappointed if I'm lucky, and to be disgusted and angry, with the latter seeming more likely.
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here on Tol Eressëa?Hi Max
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In reply to:
here on Tol Eressëa?
Hi Max
Excuse me?
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here on Tol Eressëa?
Hi Max I'm afraid that I must join with Jules Verne's submariner, mav, and seek clarification. Nemo has used an obviously fictitious address, in keeping with the apparent Greta Garbo thing she's got going. I, on the other hand, have given an address that is not only real, but legally valid. I could have included my suburb and city as well, and said that I live in Akina, Heretaunga, Te Ika a Maui, Aotearoa. NZ Post is legally required to accept for delivery mail addressed in Maaori, but I am currently unaware of any postal services that accept mail for delivery which has been addressed in Quenya.
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Excuse me?Granted, with pleasure But please excuse me too I simply thought Max had found an alter(ed) ego, compounded by both your names showing posting 8 seconds apart on the Who's Online display. If this is wrong, I grin and bear it
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In reply to:
But please excuse me too I simply thought Max had found an alter(ed) ego, compounded by both your names showing posting 8 seconds apart on the Who's Online display. If this is wrong, I grin and bear it
Coincidence is a curious thing isn't it? I have seen others post almost simultaneously before, so I guess it can happen. I am not much of a technical type person, so perhaps someone who is could explain how it would be possible for me to be Max, when my "Whose Online" screen shows us both present simultaneously. And, maverick, I was not upset at being thought of as Max. I could think of no higher honor, so thank you.
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how it would be possible for me to be Max...Well, put it this way - Max knows the answer to this. And he was at the Login screen just before I sent this...
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Well, put it this way - Max knows the answer to this. And he was at the Login screen just before I sent this...Curioser and curioser. A quick trip to the "Whose Online" screen to check out what nemo had said, (which proved to be true, by the way) showed only nemo and I present. So, mav, why do you feel the need to hide in invisibility while casting wild allegations about like confetti? Tell me that can you, my good Welsh spy?!
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I am in terror in cognita, dearest Max. And tho' off-peak, these are still workplace hours I purloin, so lurk with stealth.... Though the implication of your questioning does remind me of a school assembly at which we were all asked "Hands up anyone who is not here!"
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And what other delights is Welliwood planning to spring on us? or have they sprung on us already come to that? I am not a film buff but I would be interested to know if there is a particular genre that NZ favours.
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My Espanol (sorry, no accent marks here) teacher finally mentioned informatics to day. I didn't quite catch what she said, exactly, getting over the shock of hearing a non-AWAD person mention something I'd seen here, but she said it meant, I think, computer science.
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And what other delights is Welliwood planning to spring on us? or have they sprung on us already come to that? I am not a film buff but I would be interested to know if there is a particular genre that NZ favours.
I think a lot depends on the success (or otherwise) of LOTR I, II and III.
But on the bright side, Welliwood is the southern extension of Bolliwood. There is almost always some Indian film crew down here either filming scenes for one of those dire Indian song-and-dance dramas or doing the whole disaster. And Queenstown, in the frozen south, is beloved of Japanese documentary makers (who have been known to put scenes of Q'town into docos which have nothing to do with NZ) and Japanese gameshow and commercial makers. We're cheap (well, you knew that, of course), and we're available.
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
And there's always Xena of course. That should be a nice little earner.
Bingley
Bingley
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18 |
belligerentyouth wrote:
computer science -
the branch of engineering science that studies (with the aid of computers) computable processes and structures
It need not be with the help of computers; a whole branch of computer science thrives on mathematics.
For that matter, the first one who described a computer is not an engineer but a mathematician called Alan Turing.
Manoj.
PS: "Science is to computer science as hydrodynamics is to plumbing." Linux fortune cookie
Bangalore India
12°58' N, 77°39' E
http://www.geocities.com/kummini/index.html
Bangalore India
12°58' N, 77°39' E
http://www.geocities.com/kummini/index.html
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
And there's always Xena of course. That should be a nice little earner.
Was, Bingley, was. For once, Hollywood quit while it was ahead rather than waiting until the ratings killed Xena off instead. Last season filmed, all costumes and props auctioned off, all actors and actresses pensioned or paid off.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
There's still the repeat fees, videos, comics, and other bits and bobs. Doesn't the lady herself hail from your shores?
Bingley
Bingley
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Yeah, but Lucy turned out to be a bit lawless, so they jailed her ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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