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#29589 05/19/01 04:46 AM
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I'm not sure but Schwarzenegger sounds like one of those to me.


#29591 05/19/01 05:19 AM
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Peter Stone?


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...and his son Peter Stone II

(a chip of the old block)


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Hmmmm. I thought that Schwartzenegger meant black plowman, per The Arnold.


#29595 05/20/01 09:25 AM
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During a top-secret meeting of the Cabal of Pooh-Bahs....

I know you are sworn not to reveal much, Max, but please tell the plebes a little of what y'all do at these meetings! And is there a secret handshake? When we get elevated, do we get secret decoder rings, and baseball [delicate cough] caps with 42 stitched on them?


#29596 05/20/01 09:48 AM
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Max, but please tell the plebes a little of what y'all do at these meetings! And is there a secret handshake?

Yes, is it one of those " 'Scuse the warts!" jobbies? Reveal all!



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Max Quordlepleen>>>>
The idea for a thread soliciting such pleonasms was proposed, and here it is. Does anyone have any other "pleonastic" names to offer?


MaxQ, I am still not sure if I got the idea right of the word "neoplastic" so please let me know if Jasmine Flores (Jasmine is a flower and Flores is Spanish for flowers) is one of those names. Just so I get the concept right.


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>not sure if I got the idea right of the word "neoplastic"

oh, I think you got it all right... malaprops to you.


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typical pooh-bah meeting:
24:00 exchange of the sacred handshake
24:10 burning of top-sacred minutes-of-last-meeting
24:12 chanting of sacred number [indicipherable]
24:13 decoding of the top-sacred minutes-of-last-meeting
(problematic... no decoder ring... slightly charred)
24:14 selection of meeting chairthing, minuter
24:59 no progress, move to adjourn
25:00 adjourn


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So, it seems that Pooh-Bahs have mastered the art of the committee meeting. That schedule shows that they can conduct a meeting in half the usual time, and yet accomplish much more than is typical. [applause]


#29601 05/20/01 07:55 PM
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I've read this three times and am still laughing, tsuwm.


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a spartan comment: half the usual time

aided by short attention spans...




#29603 05/20/01 09:32 PM
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#29604 05/21/01 09:36 AM
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> Hmmmm. I thought that Schwartzenegger meant black plowman, per The Arnold.

Well, close enough. Put it this way the etymology comes from a job using a harrow (die Egge) and has nothing to do with any language used to specify a person's skin colour(e.g. der Neger). I sometimes eat at a traditional Bavarian place called Isenegger (I guess that's short for Wiesenegger, which is a field/meddow plougher).



#29605 05/21/01 09:40 AM
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I have a cousin named Peter Craig*. His elder brother helpfully nicknamed him Rocky.

*From the Gaelic, creag, rock, crag.


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Richard Shaw, nickname "Rick."
Tee Hee !
No "you don't look Chinese" jokes, please!



#29608 05/21/01 03:20 PM
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I've read this three times and am still laughing, tsuwm.
Well, zip up and join us wunchers (thanks, Rod) raght cheer.
tsuwm (see? I'm being nice for once), I'm glad you didn't tell about the sacred rite.


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Linda Belle
or
Stella Astor (aster)
or
Maryjane Grass



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Charlie Bell, recently of the Michigan State basketball team, has a mother whose name is ...


Belle Bell


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This all reminds me of the pilots in the Airplane movies ("Roger, roger. What's our vector, Victor?"). I have often been advised to seek a career in university administration so I could one day be Provost Provost. Perhaps I would be lucky enough to work with a Dean Dean!


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We have a park in Ithaca named after, I believe it is, Roy H. Park. Or either one of his close family members, one.


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While slightly off the theme, I am reminded of a pair of doctors who used to practice together in Oregon City, Oregon, USA some while back. One was named Jack Chitty; the other was Cameron Bangs. Many were hoping that their children would join them in their practice, thus producing the Chitty-Chitty-Bangs Bangs Clinic.


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A colleague of mine knows a fellow historian named Katsenellenbogen. We have also located another historian named Osenfeffer. We are now seeking an historical partnership of husdand-and-wife , or father-and-son or a pair of brothers, named Gilly, so that we can publish a joint paper about the seaside leisure industry over the past century or two. It would. of course, be entitled, "By the Sea."



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Ok--I am a bit slow-- how do you mix Gilly or 2 Gilly's with Katsenellenbogen and Osenfeffer. and come up with something related to sea side holiday resorts?

your references either require some knowledge of german, local UK resorts (I know Brighton!), or some esoteric tome that my mish mash of an education has missed--(or are so bloody obvious, that I am exposing my self as being dense!)-- can you make it simple for me?


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Provost Provost, Dean Dean

Then there's Major Major Major Major.


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Sorry david-- you could never be a provost-- since its a well known fact that they never have anything but last names for their first name-- they are always a Williams or Johnson or Madox-- or have some other not to uncommon last name for the first name -- and they alway have three names-- so Harrison Ford misses out-- but Ford Harrison Ford has potential... (in fact a good deal of potential, since the xyx combo of names seems to be an indication of being provost material, and such named children are cultivated from an early age...)




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...its a well known fact that they never have anything but last names for their first name

Perhaps I could sneak in if I went the equally popular "first initial, middle name" route: Provost D. Collins Provost sounds blue-blooded enough, I think.

PS After spending some time on Sparteye's great anti-E thread, simply spreading e's around without a second thought seems practically luxurious!


#29619 05/24/01 04:26 PM
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Or, using the Gomer Pyle*, last name first, first name, middle name last technique:

Provost David David Collins Provost

and if you want to squeeze the title in there

Provost Provost David David Collins Provost

*Or was that Andy Griffith in No Time for Sergeants?




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Rhuby, I'm also in the dark... can you splain?


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In reply to:

While slightly off the theme, I am reminded of a pair of doctors who used to practice together in Oregon City, Oregon, USA some while back. One was named Jack Chitty; the other was Cameron Bangs. Many were hoping that their children would join them in their practice, thus producing the Chitty-Chitty-Bangs Bangs Clinic.


That's hysterical, Geoff... I actually[tm] went to grade school with Shane and Chris Bangs, sons of Dr. Cameron Bangs! [Welling choruses of It's a Small World e]



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'pon my honor, I once met a woman who had named her daughter Vicky Victoria.

I still cringe at that.

So, regarding "by the sea" - what's the Cat's Elbow got to do with that? (I'm pretty dense, too.)


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'pon my honor, I once met a woman who had named her daughter Vicky Victoria.

Does she pretend to be a man pretending to be a woman?


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To Ledasdottir, StrophicAnna, and Dark Victory:

Gilly Gilly Osenfeffer Katzenellenbogen (thanks for the spelling Rhuby) by the sea is a nonsense chant used in British school playgrounds for skipping games.

Bingley


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lucky enough to work with a Dean Dean!

In my brother's faculty at U of Manitoba there really is a James Dean, assistant Dean of Arts (I think). So he's Dean James Dean.


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Although not pleonastic, or even neoplastic (at least not in public), the Dean of Academic Records at the University of Nevada at Reno, who was kind enough to send my former housemate a letter cheerily informing him that his grade of "Incomplete" in a math class had been changed to "F," is aptually named Charles V. Records.


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Bingley - many thanks for the clarification. That's a bit like Olly Olly Oxen Free in the game of hide and seek, or, as one of my friends said it, Olly Olly Umfree.

Jazz-

Who knows. All I know is that that parent was a bit confused.


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Maybe this qualifies... in the Minneapolis paper the other day, I took note of the article about a U of MN (ex-)professor's guilty plea to six counts of having child pornography. The professor's name? Richard Pervo. One can only assume he could go by Dick



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Geoff... I actually[tm] went to grade school with Shane and Chris Bangs, sons of Dr. Cameron Bangs!
[Welling choruses of It's a Small World e]


So, is that why you left town?


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The professor's name? Richard Pervo.

Some people are born to badness, some achieve badness, and some have badness thrust upon them.


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...one of my friends said it, Olly Olly Umfree.

...or as *we said it "O-lee O-lee Ocean, free-free-free.




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...one of my friends said it, Olly Olly Umfree.

...or as *we said it "O-lee O-lee Ocean, free-free-free.

...or as we used to say : Ollie, Ollie, everyone out's in free!




#29633 10/10/01 11:30 PM
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Beryl Cooper
Bo Archer


#29635 10/11/01 02:41 PM
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Woodwind, I wouldn't want to "o-boest", so I thank you for tooting my horn! Welcome, buddy!


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Woodwind, I wouldn't want to "o-boest", so I thank you for tooting my horn! Welcome, buddy!
[going out on a limb e] Hey! She's MY buddy, I'll have you know! Thanks for the back-up in t'other thread, though.



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She's your buddy? She?!!
please cancel above reference to "tooting my horn".
[above purple text matches color of my face]
[muttering "must remember to do a gender-check" -e]


#29639 10/11/01 06:27 PM
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keiva, haven't you figured it out yet? you always end up interacting with the women on the board! the glue to gender are sometimes subtle... but you always miss them!

actually it kind of nice.. it not only doesn't mattter if you are a dog on the internet, it also doesn't matter if you are a bitch!


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#29642 10/11/01 08:29 PM
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Query: how is the name Beryl actually pronounced? I've never met anyone with that name, and the only ref. I've ever seen to pronouncing it involved the characters' gales of laughter at the pronunciation "barrel". The only alternative I can think of is something like buh-RILL.
==========================================================

Possible RTP name: Washburn Paine


#29644 10/12/01 01:36 AM
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Whole cask is full of holes
We really ought to do something about all that stuff going to waste...any volunteers?


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In reply to:

Query: how is the name Beryl actually pronounced? I've never met anyone with that name, and the only ref. I've ever seen to pronouncing it involved the characters' gales of laughter at the pronunciation "barrel". The only alternative I can think of is something like buh-RILL.


It was only at this point in the thread that I had the faintest idea what you were all going on about. To me the first syllable in beryl is nothing like the first syllable in barrel. Don't the rest of you make any difference between, for example, bet and bat? The difference between beryl and barrel is exactly the same.


Bingley



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I remember a girl from my school days whose name fits:

Fiona White

I recall from the book I looked up at the time that "Fiona" came from the Scottish (Gaelic?) and meant white.

stales


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There's some Greek island where the people whose names, when Anglicised, come out as repititious.

eg Peter Peters (former sports commentator in Sydney(?))

Mick Michaels (the Lord Mayor of Perth, WA)

stales




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Before I proceed, you need to know that Ozilder's pronounce "Scarborough" as "Scar-bru" (u as in lust)

Anyway, there's a lady geologist called Barbara that used to (may still do) live in Perth. I forget her maiden name but no matter - she married Mr Scarborough.

As if Barbara Scarborough wasn't bad enough, she was known far and wide as Babs Scabs.

Her maiden name must have been bloody awful to want to run with Scarborough!

stales


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My understanding is the name Beryl is ponounced like the semi-precious stone of that name; rhymes Cheryl or sterile. Not a perfect match for "barrel", but closer if "barrel" is being used as a minor, unstressed word in a sentence. Closeness depends in part on the speaker's accent: a brit, for example, would pronouce more broadly the a in "barrel".

There is also the name Barrell (masc., yiddish), never common, but I've never heard of anyone having that name younger than may grandparents' generation.


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In reply to:

the name Beryl is ponounced like the semi-precious stone of that name; rhymes Cheryl or sterile


With Cheryl maybe, certainly not with sterile.

Bingley



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With Cheryl maybe, certainly not with sterile

Absolutely, old chap . Nor with futile or butyl.


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The difference between beryl and barrel is exactly the same.
Okay, this I don't understand, at all. Unless you pronounce barrel with the same a-sound that's in bar?
I pronounce barrel with the same a-sound that's in bare.
Beryl looks as though it ought to have the same vowel sound as berry. Just like in bare, or air.
And, sterile is STAIR-ill. Or, maybe, STAIR-ull is closer.





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Oh ye gods. I wish this board had sound capacity.

The first syllable of sterile and Beryl has the same vowel as in men or Ben. The ile part of sterile is pronounced the same as in isle/aisle. The yl part of Beryl is pronounced ull.

Bingley


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Interesting.
As to Beryl, my region agrees with Jackie and Bingley, with the distincion that the second syllable, unstressed, is probably the schma sound.

As to sterile, Bingley's version would sound completely odd and off here. Could this be the standard "atlantic divide" (geographically teleported, in Bingley's case )? Jackie's version ("stair") would pass here, but would sold faintly foreign. In that I'm assuming, an may well be mistaken, that Jackie would pronounce "stair" the same as a Chicagoan would.

Faldage's usual "bartleby" site give the first syllable of "sterile" per my version (and beryl the same), but the second syllable per Bingley's. Was the word ever spoken in the movie The Sterile Cookoo?


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The first syllable of sterile and Beryl has the same vowel as in men or Ben.
Yes, I just said that: the e sound in men and Ben is the same as the a-sound in bare or air: BEH-rull, = barrel.
I breathe ehr. I climb the stehr.

The ile part of sterile is pronounced the same as in isle/aisle.
Nope. Ill or ull.




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Here's a few that came to me in my sleep last night:

Pat Small
Peter Dwindle
Mike Measure
Pat Cosset
John Throne
John Loo
Carl Peasant
Marsh Moore
Earl Peer
Earl Noble
Marshal Sheriff
Marshal Constable
Marshal Reeve
Carrie Young (not pleonastic but funny to me!)
Van Wayne
Carrie Trust
Ted Scatter
Carol Singer
Chuck Roast
Karen Custody
Margaret Pearl
Wayne Wright
Carrie Winn
Job Post
Barry Intern
Bob Barber
Bill Dunn
Mark Brand
Art Talent
John Customer
Tom Drake
Sue Woo

Perhaps when I'm wide awake I'll think of a few more.

And here's one for the Englishers:

Tom Gibb



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Yes, I just said that: the e sound in men and Ben is the same as the a-sound in bare or air: BEH-rull, = barrel.

Hold on a sec. This is only a Southern occurance. Y'all down there pronounce the e in men and Ben like a long a with a little more toward the i sound. That makes men and man sound very similar. And that's why Kentucky sounds like Caintuck. I would say that for the rest of us in the US, Ben and bare sound quite different.


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If my memory serves me, the same issue was brought up by Bingley in referrence to a different word.

Ever since, upon seeing a word spelled with a "Y", I've repronounced it to make the "Y" a seperate, stressesd syllable... fun, but not productive.

The ile part of sterile is pronounced the same as in isle/aisle. Yep and nope... It depends upon meaning. In order to differentiate between *sterile meaning "clean" and *sterile meaning "unproductive", the later is given the "aisle" pronunciation (not like they would ever be confused)!


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Perhaps it would be well to LIU in the dictionary and post the results here. I'd be pleased to do so if some experienced soul would kindly inform me how to reproduce, on this board, the dictionary's diacritical marks.


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The stinkin' dictionary says the long I sound is Brit, and since I'm clearly no Brit, the stinkin' dictionary is *useless in this case...in most cases artfully®


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'zik, I was unable to find the Stinkin Dictionary, and therefore relied upon the American Heritage® Dictionary, which Faldage so often cites (at bartleby.com) (note: I'm unable to reproduce the schwa symbol here, for which I have substituted ÷.)

barrel: pronounced (băr ÷l)
beryl: pronounced (bĕr÷l)
sterile: pronounced (stĕr ÷l) or (stĕr īl)
stair: pronounced (stâr)


#29663 10/14/01 12:37 AM
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#29664 10/14/01 01:59 AM
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Max, I think you are threading us along here. Pleonasm simply means "superfluous" or "redundant". Dawnmarie, indeed! Now I understand how one rises in the ranks around here. Tee Hee. P.S. I'm new. How come I can't post icons and blue paste-ups like you veterans (and Pooh-Bahs)? Are these insignia of rank, or what?


#29665 10/14/01 02:28 AM
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How come I can't post icons and blue paste-ups like you veterans (and Pooh-Bahs)?
Plutarch: See your private messages!!!

Doubledub: I shall jadly goin you at the barrel (hic); and I agree wholeheartedly with your line: I never ever write with a pin or fasten things with a pen. [shudder e]


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#29667 10/14/01 02:55 AM
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"But it sure would have made a nice 6/8 metrical example."

Inspires me to poetic versification, Wordwind.




#29668 10/14/01 03:01 AM
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Come to think of it, "Dawnmarie" isn't an example of a "pleonasm", Max. Its an example of "pleonarcissism". (Like falling in love with your reflection in the water.)


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"barrel, Beryl, Shirl, Earl, squirrel, quarrel, and even Earl, Jr., all come out pretty much the same"

Well, to us here in the Antipodes, you're coming out like a hick!

Barr-rell, Beh-rill, Sherl, Erl, skwih-rool, kwoh-rool.

Sheesh

stales


#29670 10/14/01 03:15 PM
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#29671 10/15/01 05:10 PM
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isn't exactly a pleonasm in the sense in which this thread started. A cooper is not a barrel, but rather a barrel maker.



TEd
#29672 10/16/01 01:30 PM
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Egads! I have been out-shone by a compliment.


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So, Plu', "Belle Bell" would be an example of a pleonastic pleonarcissism, yes? (Mebbe "Beau Bell," too--hmmmmm, and then monkeys named "Bo-Bo" have names derived from pleonarcissisms==Beau Beau...???)

Now I'm wondering about "leonasms..." Would a pleonastic leonasm be something like "Rex King"?
Of course, if an egotistical, self-named pseudo-king, "Rex King" could be a pleonastic, pleonarcissistic, leonasm.

Best regards,
WW

Keiva: No you-know-what!!!


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