Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
#28465 05/06/01 12:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Tsuwm, I might get angrified. I doubt that I would get
angryfied. But your 'orignal sense' #1. brings up an interesting concept.
1. The amount of wine or other liquor by which a cask or bottle falls short of being quite full (originally the quantity required to make good the loss by leakage or absorption).
Now, the part in the parentheses restates the first section, in a rather significant way. Because the first section, which can stand alone, is actually a definition of
something that isn't there! It does not refer to
"the amount of space" or "the amount of gas"--it refers to something that is absent. Quite intriguing, when you think about it.




#28466 05/06/01 02:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
My dictionary says ullage is the amount by which a container, esp. of liquid, falls short of being full.

So ullage is the shortage, not what is left.

As so often happens with technical terms, idiots
get them backwards, and get into print.




#28467 05/06/01 04:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
My dictionary says ullage is the amount by which a container, esp. of liquid, falls short of being full.

So ullage is the shortage, not what is left.


And yet the OED offers it as valid - sorry, Bill, but you'll have a tough time winning this one.


#28468 05/06/01 12:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Dear Max: "F-word" the OED. I wish Bobyoungbalt were with us, because he is in the business of buying merchandise from overseas, apparently. He would know how to check that "ullage" is a legal term, used in contracts to guarantee that the buyer gets what he paid for. If you bought a thousand barrels of wine, with a guaranteed ullage of no more than one quart per barrel, and received a shipment of a thousand barrels with only a quart in each, I believe you would be sufficiently annoyed to sue, and I believe, readily win the suit.


#28469 05/06/01 04:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Whoa, now, boys; how 'bout a deep breath or two? I am
sticking my nose in without a paddle (gee I hope that made you smile ), because I've not come across this word before,
but going by the quotations, it looks to me like 'ullage'
can be used to mean both: the amount that is there,
AND the amount that isn't. Witness:
The quantity of liquor contained in a cask partially filled and the capacity of the portion which is empty are termed respectively the wet and dry ullage.
So, perhaps users of this word need to be specific.




#28470 05/06/01 04:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
W
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
And, here, all the time I thought "dregs" was the proper word for the sediment left over in the bottom of a wine glass or the bottom of a cask or bottle. In a fancy restaurant I've heard the sediment in a glass called the "lees." And quite properly I thought!
Silly me!


#28471 05/06/01 08:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
, it looks to me like 'ullage'
can be used to mean both: the amount that is there,
AND the amount that isn't.


My point exactly. I was not trying to provoke Dr. Bill, I was simply unaware that he would object so vigorously to the idea that the word in question might have more than one meaning.


#28472 05/06/01 09:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
>The quantity of liquor contained in a cask partially filled and the capacity of the portion which is empty are termed respectively the wet and dry ullage.

well, imagine that... a word which is its own opposite!? hey jojo!!

but on a less serious note, here's what Norman Schur ("1000 Most Challenging Words") has to say: Ullage is used of a bottle of wine part of which has been lost by evaporation. In England, ullage was formerly used as a slang term for "dregs" and even more generally, "rubbish".
One might, then, refer to this whole thread as ullage.


#28473 05/06/01 09:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Dear Max: I was irritated only at the stupidity of the people who inverted the meaning to no good purpose.
I guess the only solution would be when contracting to buy wine by the barrel to define "ullage" in the contract.

"One might, then, refer to this whole thread as ullage"

Tell that to Wordsmith.


#28474 05/06/01 09:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
I was irritated only at the stupidity of the people who inverted the meaning to no good purpose.

It's like the say, Bill, "shift happens"!


Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,330
Members9,182
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Ineffable, ddrinnan, TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV
9,182 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,018 guests, and 1 robot.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,541
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5