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#27045 04/24/01 02:28 PM
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re latin plurals/singulars.
Faldage points out words of which we use the plural more often than the singular. Datum and medium are used in UK as singular forms of data and media (though more rarely now) but I haven't heard agendum.
I don't think I have heard opera as plural of opus, writers tend to use the word opus** as a collective noun and avoid the problem. POD lists opera as a singular noun for a musical work.

Rod
or should we refer to the recent definitive discussion on "octopus" in this board?


#27046 04/24/01 02:42 PM
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I once found a crazy website maintained by people who wanted Latin words in English to be pluralized as was proper in Latin. Their organization had some sort of name, and they derided some rival organization which was in favour of forming all the plurals with English rules instead. It was a little on the surreal side, partly because at first I wasn't sure what I'd stumbled on, and then I couldn't believe that people would devote so much time to such criticizing a tiny aspect of of such a big language!


#27047 04/24/01 02:55 PM
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US'ns have essentially forgotten that data is plural. Well, some folk use the plural verb with it but that is sounding increasingly pedantic. Media is becoming increasingly common in computer contexts as a straight singular, e.g. "Insert non-write protected media". Agenda is commonly used to mean a list of items to be covered in a meeting or suchlike and is invariably construed as singular, as in "I have an agenda here for tomorrow's meeting". The most common use for opera is a collection of lyrics and music in the form of some drama or comedy, and is taken as a singular. The fact that it derives from the singular opus has long since been forgotten.


#27048 04/24/01 06:23 PM
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The use of Latin plurals seems to be universally declining, no matter which declension the noun belongs to. Except, of course, when the plural is the word we use regardless of its number.

Therefore this thread is VERY academic. While I don't necessarily agree with Faldage's "bleeped rats", the way that Latin was pronounced is, in my opinion, still not completely sorted out and probably never will be. I'm sure that Ol' Nick has the formal pronunciation correct. His description of that is exactly what I was taught. My Latin teacher had spent years wandering around Europe retracing some obscure facet of Roman life for his PhD, and had some very interesting comments on Roman daily life. But he thought that the "upper class" pronunciation of Latin as taught was probably correct.

But what fascinates me (based on the discussions of grafitti and what have you that the Latinists have indulged in over the years and which I've followed in a rather desultory fashion) is how Marcus the Fishmonger spoke it. I don't believe that we do completely understand what the vernacular usage was. Dr Bell (my Latin teacher) started me off down this path some thirty-odd years ago, damn him!



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#27049 04/24/01 06:47 PM
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I rough sorted a book with the title Vulgar Latin to Portuguese or something like that several weeks ago. Policy of the Friends of the Library is that rough sorters may check out for a period of two weeks books that they have been rough sorting. The comments on Vulgar Latin in the book were very interesting. Apparently the Vulgar was using periphrastic constructions for what were separate forms as early as the Republic. I hope to find the book during the Spring Sale or the Fall Sale and buy it.


#27050 04/24/01 06:50 PM
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I rough sorted a book with the title Vulgar Latin to Portuguese or something like that several weeks ao.

'Ullo. This is a new one on me. What's "rough sorting"?



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#27051 04/24/01 06:58 PM
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The Friends of the Tompkins County Library hold an annual* book sale, the proceeds of which go to the support of the library. We typically get in close to a half a million books that have to be divided among the large categories (Education, Drama, Sociology {three sub-categories}, Science {also three subcategories}, Politics and Government, etc.) This process is called rough sorting and is a real gas. Once the books have been rough sorted, the fine sorters for each category sort them in finer detail.

*Originally just one sale in the Fall, later a Spring paperback sale was instituted; it is now threatening to become as major as the Fall Sale.


#27052 04/24/01 08:02 PM
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Thanks for the explanation. I wondered if a sale might be the issue. In Dunedin (Zild) there is an annual institution called the "Regent 24 Book Sale". It was originally set up to provide funding for the conversion of a movie theatre which had been a live theatre originally back to its original purpose. That was ?15 years ago. Now, they donate the proceeds to all sorts of charities. Like yours, there are usually between .5 million and 1 million books on sale. There's food and entertainment as well. As the name suggests, it is held over 24 hours, and in that time they can get up to 100,000 people coming in. Some people go along and stay for the entire 24 hours. Not me, though. I dive in, grab what I want (or can) and get out again.



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#27053 04/24/01 08:11 PM
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For the Fall Sale people line up the afternoon before but I've never gotten in line before about 4:30AM for an 8 o'clock opening. The Sale runs a week and is reputed to be the premiere sale of its type in the US. Standing on line on opening day is the social event of the season.


#27054 04/24/01 08:41 PM
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I should be kept away from Book Sales with barbed wire if necessary.
I went to the University Of Hawaii Press book sale , held yearly in the University gym, with a firm resolve not to spend more than $100.
I bought so much they let me back my car up to the loading dock (no kidding) to get my $$$$-worth of books which were delivered to me on a huge wheeled dolly.
I scored several about-to-be-out-of-print books and multiple copies of some wonderful ethnocultural books!
That took care of me, several birthdays and a few Christmas gifts.
As I said : barbed wire!
wow


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