Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#19740 02/20/01 03:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
tsuwm Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
this is something I've found puzzling ever since I read John Fowles' "The Magus" many years ago -- why is 'magus' pronounced with a hard 'g' and 'magi' with a soft 'g'?


#19741 02/20/01 03:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
J
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
J
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
>why is 'magus' pronounced with a hard 'g' and 'magi' with a soft 'g'?

There are other examples following the same rule:
Hard “G”
Gu: Gus; Angus; Gut; Gun
Ge: Get
Go: Got
Soft “G”
Gi: Gin; Magic; Tragic; Gibralter
Ge: Gentle; Gentile; Gentry; Agent; Agenda

#19742 02/20/01 05:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
following the same rule

Be more convincing if it was AnJus or Gus as the alternatives, Jo, since magi and magus are twins.


#19743 02/20/01 05:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
tsuwm Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
yes... more to the point, magi it the plural of magus.


#19744 02/21/01 12:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
While we await one of our Latin scholars (O Faldage, where art thou?) to appear, let me throw in my guess:

To rephrase what Jo said: Just as the C (cf. celtic) was pronounced K in Latin, as far as we know, so was the G a hard sound and not soft (cf. Regina - hard G sound). Today we pronounce the singular and plural as we do because of English conventions governing the G sound in the two pre-vowel environments.




#19745 02/21/01 02:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
To rephrase what AnnaS. just said:
it's the same as the pronunciation rule for c.
Soft before e and i, hard before a, o, and u.

That's not to say there aren't exceptions--this is English,
after all.


#19746 02/21/01 11:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
B
old hand
Offline
old hand
B
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
I'm no Latin expert but I know Italian, which has the same rules as outlined (more or less) by jmh above:

G followed by a,o or u = hard G (e.g. gatto (cat))
G followed by e or i = soft (e.g. gelato (ice cream) is pronounced "jelato")
If you need a hard G followed by E or I you stick in an H (e.g. spaghetti)

So magus/magi makes sense to me, in a transferring-Italian-rules-to-English sort of way!


#19747 02/21/01 12:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
magus/magi makes sense to me

Maybe. What had initially struck me as odd was the change made to the root phoneme <mag> by two different suffixes. This is looking, after all at two variants of one word, not two completely different orthographies embodying general rules. Is this common - I can't think of parralels right now, but doubtless someone can help...


#19748 02/21/01 07:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
As Jo noted Ge: Get

This is an apparent exception but, by and large, you'll find that the exceptions here will be Germanic words and the Germanic languages didn't go through that softening of Cs and Gs before Es and Is. The change was a purely a physical thing and didn't care that one word in a pair like magus/magi* underwent the shift and the other didn't. It's a matter of what the mouth was doing in the shift from the consonant to the vowel. In cases where the shift, for whatever reason, didn't happen (a word was coined after the shift had happened, for example) there will normally be some spelling convention to retain the hard sound as necessary, e.g. Italian spaghetti*.

* The things Ænigma will come up with. It wants spaghetti to be Spahn and magus/magi to be Maharashtra


#19749 02/21/01 07:14 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
It wants spaghetti to be Spahn and magus/magi to be Maharashtra

Ah yes... i know that piece.... "Thus Spake Maharashtra". Excellent horn intro.





Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,549
Members9,187
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Karin, JeffMackwood, artguitar, Jim_W, Rdbuffalo
9,187 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (A C Bowden), 136 guests, and 5 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
wofahulicodoc 10,695
tsuwm 10,542
LukeJavan8 9,928
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5