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#19513 - 02/21/01 03:18 AM Re: US ignorance/ schools
Marianna Offline

Registered: 01/09/01
Posts: 427
Loc: Spain
Bingley wrote: The students at your school may be better informed than the average, but that doesn't make them any more intelligent than people who haven't had the same quality of instruction

And conversely, students being highly intelligent does not guarantee they will be very educated or well informed. They may be intelligent but completely demotivated to study and learn, or they may be keen but getting a low standard of education. What is more, in my experience, a lower standard of education often results in a lack of motivation to be educated.

I am talking generally here, and certainly NOT picking on Jazz.

Wey-hey! I'm a newbie! How about that?

#19514 - 02/21/01 08:27 AM Re: US ignorance/ schools
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
the ignorance in the US about basic geography is appalling-- when my daughter was in HS, she got a promotion at a temp job because it became evident to the manager that she knew the 50 states. She was working at a mailing house, and had to sort (outgoing) mail for postage. Sometimes, there would be domestic mail in the batches -- usually just missing a zip code. many of the workers had been "long term" temps, but still were unable to reliably recognize domestic from overseas addresses.

For myself, i "knew" New Zealand long before i knew Australia-- My family loved lamb-- and NZ frozen legs of lamb came with a "map" outlining the shape.. so I could find NZ on the globe as soon as i got to school. Idaho was one of the first states i knew as child too, from the bags of potatoes!

We had a puzzle map of the US, and i learned geography of US at a young age-- and still have childhood images of the states.. Virginia looks like a sleeping camel in my minds eye to this day!

my other obsession

#19515 - 02/21/01 09:29 AM Re: US ignorance/ schools
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Many of us have good reason to be unhappy with the schools. But we must remember how much new material has been added.I had things in highschool my father had in college. My kids had a bit of calculus in highschool, which I never heard of until I got into college. Add the new math, etc.,etc.A lot of new garbage crowded out some of the old solid foundation material.

#19516 - 02/21/01 11:07 AM Commercial symbolism
Sparteye Offline

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 1773
To clarify this discussion, there is a difference between trademark, trade name, and copyright. Based on US law, generally,

(1) A trademark is a word, phrase or logo used to distinguish a manufacturer's or seller's product from others. It had its origin as a guarantee of genuineness (such as Paul Revere's mark on his silver works). To receive trademark protection under US federal law, a mark must (a) be distinctive rather than merely descriptive, (b) be affixed to the product actually sold in the marketplace, and (c) be registered in the Patent Office. The need for distinctiveness rather than description, coupled with a marketing goal of attracting attention and staying in the consumer's memory, is what prompts the odd spellings. Trademark is related to service mark, used to distinguish the services of a certain provider.

(2) A trade name is a name, style or symbol used to distinguish a company or business rather than a product or service. It establishes and preserves the company's reputation and goodwill. General Electric is a trade name.

(3) Copyright is a property right in an original work of authorship, including literary, musical and artistic work, fixed in a tangible medium of expression. It entitles the owner of the exclusive rights to the work, including to the profits generated by the work. The ideas underlying copyrighted works cannot themselves be copyrighted, so a person who develops a recipe for creme brulee can preclude others from selling that recipe, but cannot stop them from selling another recipe for creme brulee. As you've noted in another thread, under US federal law, copyright is subject to certain "fair use" exceptions, including brief quotation for the purpose of critique.


I believe that the Sinclair dinosaur was adopted in acknowledgment of the origins of fossil fuels.


3M Company is a good example of a trade name gone awry. Originally the Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company, the corporation was formed by a group of investors in a smallish town in Minnesota to purchase and exploit a deposit of a mineral (I forget which one) discovered nearby. The investors planned to sell the mineral for a certain industrial use, but discovered that the mineral was of inferior quality and couldn't be used for that purpose. Left with a bunch of rocks, they explored alternate uses and started making sandpaper with it. That lead to BIG advances by the company in the production of papers and glues, including the invention of masking tape and cellophane tape. That's why a mining company is a leader in stationary supplies and now calls itself 3M. 3M brought us Scotch tape, another product with a trademark so successful that it nearly lost its purpose as a trademark.

-- (c) 2001

#19517 - 02/21/01 11:26 AM Re: Commercial symbolism
Fiberbabe Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/12/01
Posts: 771
Loc: Portland, Oregon
>I believe that the Sinclair dinosaur was adopted in acknowledgment of the origins of fossil fuels.

What morbid ad agent dreamed that one up? Although I suppose putting that cow on bottles of Elmer's glue is no better...

#19518 - 02/21/01 01:39 PM Re: US ignorance/ schools
Max Quordlepleen Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
Virginia looks like a sleeping camel

Given the crop Ole Virginny's famed for, should not that be "a sleeping Camel®"? [couldn't-help-myself emoticon]

#19519 - 02/21/01 01:43 PM Re: Commercial symbolism
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
It's different-- Elmers (and most "white glues") are made from whey-- a waste product of cheese making--
Milk is seperated into "curds and whey" and the curds become cheese. Whey (in the quanties that were being prduced) was a "toxic waste" it killed fish, it smelled bad, ect.. But someone noticed, it dried "sticky" and it glued paper to a surface--

So Elsie survives "white glue" now as for a mucilage type glues...

my other obsession

#19520 - 02/21/01 02:11 PM Canada and US
Bean Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 1156
I have to confess with shame that at least 40 percent of my fellow citizens could not tell you where Manitoba or Alberta are.

One of our favourite shows is this Canadian comedy/current events show called "This Hour Has 22 Minutes" (a joke on the CBC's 22-minute evening newshour). In it, one of the hosts, Rick Mercer, will periodically have a segment called "Talking to Americans". He goes down to some southern US state (or other places, he went to Harvard once) and poses a garbage question to people, to see what kind of dumb things they say which show their ignorance of Canada (and the world). For example "Did you know that President Clinton approved air attacks on Saskatchewan this week? What do you think of that?" Then people will answer with things like "Yeah, we believe that we should do what it takes to maintain American sovereignty" or "If that's what's necessary to keep peace in the world then I support it 100%". Another good one was "Did you know that Canada recently celebrated the coronation of their new king Svend and queen Luba" (first names of a member of parliament and a TV personality) (by the way, we don't have a king and queen!). "Would you like to congratulate Canada?" And they get people on tape saying "Congratulations Canada on the coronation of your new king and queen" and other stuff. The best (or worst) part of it is that he talks to American politicians - the governor of Arkansas comes to mind - and gets them on camera saying these things. I am not kidding. He does it all with a straight face and it is too funny (and kind of embarrassing) to watch.

So, our big secret is out. Of course, not every American falls into this group and they obviously don't show us the footage of when Rick talks to the informed ones. However, lots of Americans don't know anything about Canada so it makes great fodder for our comedians.

And obviously that doesn't include the members of this board, who not only know a lot about the world but can admit when they don't know something, and then look it up! (I will admit to looking up where the heck Vermont was, exactly, a couple of weeks ago. New England is all a blur to someone from Western Canada!)

#19521 - 02/21/01 02:54 PM Re: Canada and US
AnnaStrophic Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York

I think it would be worth my while to get a satellite dish just to be able to watch "Talking to Americans."
Thanks for telling us about that program(me). Some of us can poke fun at ourselves, though: Late-night variety show host Jay Leno (the Tonight Show? Or is that Letterman? doesn't matter for now) often steps out to do a vox pops, similar to your Mercer, with the proverbial man on the street. Again, the informed don't make good footage so they aren't used, of course, but what we do get to see is hilarious in its sadness.
[schadenfreude emoticon]

#19522 - 02/21/01 02:55 PM Re: Canada and US
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 3439
Loc: New England, USA
There's a "story" going the rounds that opines:
If the now-USA had been settled from the west, instead of the east, New England would be designated a National Wilderness Area!
It was a hard scrabble life for the early settlers!

Years ago during a stint as a manager for an American Automobile Association office, I was often amused by the plans of visitors from other countries or even from the South or Western US !
They had planned three days to "see" New England including the City of Boston, Cape Cod, the Berkshires for the Boston Symphony Music Festival at Tanglewood in Lenox, Mass. Plus Vermont for maple syrup and Maine for lobsters. They were amazed when I got out the big New England map an started explaining to them about driving times! Inevitably they'd comment "But it looks so small on the maps!
It takes a good three days just to hit the (limited) highlights in Boston!
That's why, when travelling, I stop at the local AAA offices!

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