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...the association between an object and its name is determined. Are they saying here that what a thing is determines its name, or that names naturally come from the essence of a thing? For the former, family names in many European languages - Metzger, Smith, etc. - fit the bill; and for the latter, I can imagine (perhaps) the original sound to represent a thing being coined to evoke the thing in question. "Cricket," for a simple example, could imitate the sound a cricket makes. Of course, not all coinage need be onomatopoeic, but is that the idea?
"I don't know which is worse: ignorance or apathy. And, frankly, I don't care." - Anonymous
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hola, Ola!
I had a doctor named Payne....
formerly known as etaoin...
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I had a doctor named Payne....
And my dentist's name is Les Plack. (He tells me his uncle Morris was a dentist also.)
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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"Cricket," for a simple example, could imitate the sound a cricket makes. Of course, not all coinage need be onomatopoeic, but is that the idea?Yes, it's called phonosemantics or sound symoblism. and it plays a small part in language, though some deny it. The name thing is based on the arbitrary association between the words (German) metzger 'butcher' and (English) tailor and such. Also few people with those names are in the professions. I see the physis-nomos (nature-convention) schools as the extremes on a spectrum. Besides, Plato's Cratylus, you might want to take a look at Ferdinand de Saussure's Course in General Linguistics. He talks about the arbitrary nature of association of the signifier (sound of a word) to the signified (concept). He did not posit an association with things as earlier philosophers / linguists did. A great many signs (words) are for concepts only and no objects are involved. He also talks about onomatopoeia versus the arbitrary nature of the sign. One of his examples, (French) glas 'death knell', was used by Derrida as the title of one of his books. There are a bunch of funny names for the various theories on the origins of language. The bow-wow theory ( link) is the one based on onomatopoeia. Animals make a whole slew of different sounds in different languages.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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when did surnames begin to come into play?
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>Also few people with those names are in the professions.
jheem, perforce it is highly unlikely that my neighbor, Tim Baker, turns out to be in that profession. but isn't it also likely that a distant ancestor was, in fact, a baker? or have I completely misunderstood your point (once again)?
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but isn't it also likely that a distant ancestor was, in fact, a baker?
Could be. Probably was. But all the non-baker Bakers in the world surely outnumber the baking Bakers. Also, the word baker (< OE bæcere) predates anybody with that name, I would suppose. And, all those non-Bakers are referred to as Baker because that's the name they inherited from their father (or chose for themselves, or married into a Baker family). I was talking about the origins of words or the semantics of words.
or have I completely misunderstood your point (once again)?
Well, I guess I didn't state it well. I tend towards the nomos (convention) side of the scales when it comes to semantics. I don't think there's much in b and k with a vowel in between that signifies a person who bakes or the process of baking.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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when did surnames begin to come into play?
Depends on where you're talking about. In England, it was after the Norman invasion. Probably in the 13th century. Started with the nobles, spread to the non-nobles later.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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when did surnames begin to come into play?
Depends on where you're talking about. In England, it was after the Norman invasion. Probably in the 13th century. Started with the nobles, spread to the non-nobles later. just thinking about names and language and what we called each other before we had surnames.
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"The bow-wow theory (link) is the one based on onomatopoeia. Animals make a whole slew of different sounds in different languages."
It may be discredited this bow-wow theory, but it seems so logic that it went from simple signal-sound communication ( like animals use) to a stage of communication where we crossed the line to communication in onomatopoeia sounds. Until that sort of got solid in basic conventional sounds/words?
[Was'nt there in the Skandinavian and Icelandic tradition this habit of being called such and so's daughter or son for a surname? (Also in Germany and the lowlands) ??]
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