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I was just perusing a section in Geoffrey Nunberg's the way we talk now, and my eye was caught by the unusual title. He says that in the late nineteenth century, Americans began using the words literate and illiterate as a way of classifying people according to whether they could read and write. And that since then, these two words (literate and illiterate) have led "double lives", referring both to basic skills and to broader cultural and intellectual achievements. He also states that recently Americans have expanded the idea of literacy to include "skills and knowledge that don't seem to have any immediate connection to basic reading and writing". He cites such terms as media literacy, economic literacy, geographical literacy, scientific literacy, computer literacy, mathematical literacy, etc.
Is there another language that has a single word for this that includes such a wide variation in meaning?
Here's my real point in making this post: he says that Americans are "skittish" about using the word culture as a positive term, and that "a phrase like 'a person of culture' has an elitist, PBS ring to it". He also asserts that literacy is America's way of getting culture in "through the back door of the schoolroom. Literacy strips culture of its connotations of class and refinement and turns it into a civic duty and a subject matter, something you can objectify and quantify."
I am not sure I agree with this. What do you all think?
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Literate and illiterate we strictly use for language and reading.
I understand your question, but the answer is too complicated. I think we use about three words for what you use, and attached to different subjects of knowledge. One of those words would have to be translated as:"have a good grounding in"- onderlegd
scientifically literate - wetenschappelijk onderlegd.
The second part of your post is not very clear to me.
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old hand
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a person of culture' has an elitist, PBS ring to it
I think the boundaries of literacy or its percieved status were mostly transcended yonks ago and those that are left not being able to read or write are not entirely culturally deprived rather, slightly less inclined to think what others think. I know in Cook Islands culture that when the English language arrived, those who learned to read and write 'it' were deemed 'more cultured' and looked upon as people to aspire too, a distinction that I have since come to regret due to its negative impact on our native language.
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Pooh-Bah
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Jackie I hadn't thought of the use of "________ illiterate" to be a way of avoiding the term culture. In fact I have often seen the expression "culturally illiterate" used. To my ears, illiteracy has an even harsher tone to it than "uncultured," but then again my parents were teachers so illiteracy amounts to something very near total depravity to me. I would classify the use of illiterate in the various ways that you mentioned as simply figurative speech. Sometimes it hits the nail on the head, such as when the subject is something that is about as fundamental as literacy. For example, if a person can't perform simple arithmetic then it's reasonable to say that they are mathematically illiterate. On the other hand if a person is unfamiliar with French New Wave cinema it would be overkill to say that they are "culturally illiterate." (In other words the lack of knowledge is not really a handicap to functioning as an independent adult in society.)
Slightly on topic, an interesting word that I came across not too long ago was aliterate, meaning someone who is able to read but essentially never reads a book.
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Hmm--I've heard of amoral and asexual, but not aliterate.
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Pooh-Bah
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It's actually a previous Word a Day word from November 2007: aliterate A.Word.A.Day--aliterate This week's theme: adjectives. aliterate (ay-LIT-uhr-it) noun, adjective One who is capable of reading but not interested in it. [From Latin a- (not or without) + litteratus (learned), from littera (letter).] Today's word in Visual Thesaurus. Aliterates stand somewhere between literates and illiterates. They can read but don't want to. Whether they can alliterate, we're not sure. -Anu Garg (words at wordsmith.org) "The avowed aliterate has relinquished an activity that is uniquely human. (Apes can watch TV)." Linton Weeks; Essay; The Washington Post; Jul 14, 1996. X-Bonus Endless money forms the sinews of war. -Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator, writer (106-43 BCE)
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[From Latin a- (not or without) + litteratus (learned), from littera (letter).]
Hmm, the prefix a- (an- before vowels) is from Greek, not Latin. There's a rarish word for an illiterate person, agrammatist.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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agrammatist Who someone this like speaks?
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Who someone this like speaks? Only an incredible pedant; the OED2 has this lonely entry sans citation: ‘An unlearned, illiterate man.’ Bailey 1731; whence in Johnson, etc. So, they only mention the first two dictionaries it shows up in, and not anybody use of it in writing. Using the new-fangled web thingum, i.e., Google Books, I stumbled upon this mid-19th century pedantic humor: Although I am an agamist, I am no misogamist. In verity, you were not ignote to me prior to my vision of you at our primal adventine gemote. Your catagraph, your epistolary chirography, your neologisms and diorisms, the scribatious and sapiential aspects of your epistolography, had already premonstrated to me that you are no agrammatist, but a sapient philomath, and thus from the very necessitate of the case, I cherished a pre-existimation for you. In my cogitations upon the habilitations of him who is to be my future marital co-mate, I formed the illation, that he must possess the sequacious denotements. (Emphasis mine.) [ Letters to Squire Pedant, in the East by Lorenzo Altisonant [pseud. of Samuel Klinefelter Hoshour], an imigrant to the West, 1856.] Samuel Klinefelter Hoshour (1803-1883) was a 19th century Disciples of Christ preacher and one of the first the superintendents of schools in Indiana. [A Detailed biography online. Scroll to the bottom of the page for an abstract.] The word is a calque of unlettered and illiterate.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Oompf! This is page on 47 and I did not get to the end of scrolling down, but round page 60 there is a complete Worthless Word of the Day sort of Vocabulary with explanations. ( Useful )
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This is page on 47
Sorry, BranShea, the scrolling down referred to my 2nd link which is to an online biography of the man who wrote the book in the first link, but yes, it is filled with fun inkhorn words.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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I hope this does not betray the fact that I did not explore the second link  ..at first. But now I did.
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hope this does not betray the fact that I did not explore the second linkYour secret is safe on the Net. 
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Post it on Wikipedia and no one will believe it.
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Pooh-Bah
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Hmm, the prefix [i]a- (an- before vowels) is from Greek, not Latin. [/i].
You'll have to take that up with the Wordsmith himself. I merely copied and pasted the entry from AWAD.
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take that up with the Wordsmith himself.
Ah, yes, I realized that, but lethargy overtook me, and I posted here, even though I know Anu does not read these posts.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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I don't know why I should feel compelled to defend the word aliterate, but in general I don't grasp the logic of forbidding the combination of Greek and Latin roots to form a new word. It's just an arbitrary rule and ignores the organic change of language over time. If a language incorporates Greek and Latin words in general, it seems natural to me that over time interracial marriages may occur and produce offspring. What would be the more etymologically pure form, anyway? Anliterate? Analiterate? Are these words better than "aliterate" or even as good?
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in general I don't grasp the logic of forbidding the combination of Greek and Latin roots to form a new word.I was not castigating aliterate for its mixed classical heritage. It does not bother me at all to see or use words like television or hexadecimal. I was just saying that the prefix a- is of Greek origin and not of Latin origin as Anu stated in his etymology. What would be the more etymologically pure form, anyway?Not sure about what purity and etymology have to do with one another. I am reminded of a great quotation from the early days of the Internet: The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle [sic] their pockets for new vocabulary. The word would be aliterate. If you want to have word that uses only Latin affixes and roots, you could use the more common illiterate. Another mixed one I mentioned earlier in this thread would be the semi-pseudo-mixed unlettered. Or you could use the delightful (and totally Greek, man) analphabetic. [Fixed typo.]
Last edited by zmjezhd; 06/21/10 03:10 PM.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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apropos of some other convo, no doubt, but actually related to jim's original post on this matter, I discovered that the actual root word for agrammatist, according to OED and verified by Liddell/Scott, is the totally Greek word agrammatos. put that in your riffle and puther it. (I, being even more lethargic in the end, couldn't be arsed to also look up the root of aliterate, which might be even more instructive, in the event.)
-joe (country boy) fish
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Pooh-Bah
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Not sure about what purity and etymology have to do with one another. I am reminded of a great quotation from the early days of the Internet: The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle [sic] their pockets for new vocabulary. The word would be aliterate. I fyou want to have word that uses only Latin affixes and roots, you could use the more common illiterate. Another mixed one I mentioned earlier in this thread would be the semi-pseudo-mixed unlettered. Or you could use the delightful (and totally Greek, man) analphabetic. Well, there may have been elements of irony in my question that did not fully transmit via internet.
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Well, there may have been elements of irony in my question that did not fully transmit via internet.
Ah, well, then. I have been known to be irony-deficient in my postings.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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addict
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Ah, well, then. I have been known to be irony-deficient in my postings. As long as they're not anaemic.
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As long as they're not anaemic.
No, they are pretty bloody offal ...
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Sometimes sick'll sell. 
ÅΓª╥┐↕§
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Aramis! You're back!!  I thought you'd given us up. [HUG]
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