Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 10 11
zmjezhd #189536 02/24/10 11:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 655
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 655
Originally Posted By: zmjezhd
The fact that one can read Tom Jones or Tristam Shandy without too much trouble, except an occasional trip to the dictionary (I am speaking of the grammar of the the language thereto) puts the lie to your assertion.

Informed readers today have the advantage of having experienced 250-year-old (and newer, and older) English. We can see the connection across the centuries through the intermediates we've experienced. I'd be curious to see how well a reader from Fielding's era - the middle of the 18th Century - would cope with a Michael Crichton novel. Agreed that the underlying grammar has changed but little, but the poor fellow would be lost when it came to virtually every other aspect of the language he'd find there.


"I don't know which is worse: ignorance or apathy. And, frankly, I don't care." - Anonymous
beck123 #189538 02/24/10 11:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 956
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 956
but the poor fellow would be lost when it came to virtually every other aspect of the language he'd find there.

Moreso from the style of writing and the concepts of this age I'd say.

olly #189539 02/24/10 11:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 655
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 655
Sure. Our modern language serves our modern needs. We actively change it to serve our needs, and that's the whole point behind my opinion of why esperanto is a failure as a general language: it is imposed upon us.


"I don't know which is worse: ignorance or apathy. And, frankly, I don't care." - Anonymous
beck123 #189548 02/25/10 03:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Jackie Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
my opinion of why esperanto is a failure as a general language: it is imposed upon us. Hey--you just might be on to something there, IMHO.

zmjezhd #189549 02/25/10 03:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Jackie Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
The fact that one can read Tom Jones or Tristam Shandy without too much trouble Which I am, to my surprise, able to do with A Clockwork Orange . But I see that for some reason, Burgess' absolutely new words haven't become common... "Malenky"; "ptista", etc.: sick

olly #189552 02/25/10 10:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Originally Posted By: olly
Originally Posted By: BranShea
What's the use of translating Shakespeare, Chaucer, Tolstoy, any great litterature to Esperanto, when all those great writers are translated into practically all languages of the world?

For the same reason all the other languages have translated those texts, Cultural perspective. Ideas are sometimes translated more coherently in ones own lingo. Who's to say Esperanto doesn't generate it's own cultural Identity?

I suppose it does. But it seems so limited in spite of this effort to create a language accessible to everyone.

Faldage #189555 02/25/10 12:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Originally Posted By: Faldage
Originally Posted By: beck123
Imperial imposition of a common language has been tried - unsuccessfully - time and time again


The population of Great Britain is overwhelmingly of British or Irish/Scottish stock. The language spoken by the vast majority of those people is a Germanic language imposed on them by a relatively small number of roughly fifth century invaders.


Spanish, French, Italian, Catalan, Portuguese, Romanian, Rhaeto-Romansch, all languages descended from Latin and spoken by people who are not, largely, the descendants of Romans. This Latin was imposed on them by the Roman Empire. If Esperanto is ever "imposed" on anyone it will be by voluntary vote of the people on whom it is imposed not by imperial conquest by the dread armies of Esperantujo.

Faldage #189557 02/25/10 12:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
dread armies of Esperantujo.

The signs in the TV series Red Dwarf are in Esperanto. Those dread armies got into space.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
Faldage #189560 02/25/10 03:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Putting Latin as being 'imposed' on the countries you name seems a little too simple. I guess it was learned as second language, much like most parts of the world learn English in our days.
Then it developed into Italian itself like into French, Spanish etc. and Latin was kept intact in Church and in scientific language .(more or less like this) The essence of Esperanto is its strive for peace.But.

BranShea #189564 02/25/10 05:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Originally Posted By: BranShea
Putting Latin as being 'imposed' on the countries you name seems a little too simple. I guess it was learned as second language, much like most parts of the world learn English in our days.


It may have started as a second language, but it certainly supplanted any native language as a mother tongue. It wouldn't have gotten there without the imperial ambitions of the Roman state.

Page 4 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 10 11

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,334
Members9,182
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Ineffable, ddrinnan, TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV
9,182 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 729 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
wofahulicodoc 10,543
tsuwm 10,542
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5