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journeyman
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journeyman
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There can be no doubt, after last nights 9th inning comeback, that the New York Yankees are the acnestis to fans of the Philadelphia Phillies.
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Joined: Nov 2009
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stranger
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stranger
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It is very satisfying that is there is a word for that annoying, unreachable itch. But does it strike anyone but me as odd that the ancient Greek word acnestis refers not only to "spine" but to "cheese grater"?? Maybe it's just me.............
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Greek ακνηστις aknēstis 'backbone' < κνηστις knēstis 'spine; cheesegrater' < PIE *kenə-, knē- 'to scratch, scrape, rub'. The words are quite rare and their meanings did not seem to stop Homer from using them: the former in Odyssey 10.161 (a stag is struck by Odysseus' bronze spear in the spine) and the latter in Iliad 11.640 (a bronze grater is used to grate cheese into a cup of wine). It does not seem like to far a semantic journey from a cheese grater to a spine.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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stranger
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stranger
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I was trying to figure out this acnestis and think that it basically means 'not scratching oneself' from the reflexive meaning of the verb which knestis comes from. Maybe then it came to apply to the back, the difficult-to-scratch-oneself place. Then to spine as back? And cheese-grater, an implement to avoid when scratching oneself anywhere, a not-scratching-oneself implement. The last a bit of a stretch I know and some will doubt the authenticity. Great site!
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I would guess that the 'cheese grater' reference came from the fact that cheese graters are kind of bumpy like the spine is, and, rather than cobble together a new word for it they decided to adapt an already existing word. As they say, "The Greeks had a word for it." And tsuwm probably knows what it is.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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d'oh. (see above)
but to carry on a bit, knaô 'to scrape or grate' is prolly the ultimate root
-ron o.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Ha! So, parboly, the metaphorical meaning went the other way. The spine was so named for its resemblance to the cheese grater.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Hmm...speculations. I like that. Maybe before the iron cheese grater was invented they used the spine of a deceased small mammal for a cheese grater. ( if of course by that time cheese was invented.) which makes cheese grater and spine Oldtimer synonyms.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Thanks Bran;
I may never grate cheese again.
----please, draw me a sheep----
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stranger
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stranger
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Granted that knao, with its basic meaning of scraping is the source word for knestis, the cheese grater, and that it's possible that the grater was the model for the spine, from a language perspective,I am puzzled why a-knestis for spine or backbone. What sense would alpha-privative make? Is it too far-fetched to think this alpha is not privative but alpha-combining as in a Gk word like a-koites, having the same place to lie down, sharing the same bed = spouse? So, having the same appearance as a cheese-grater = spine. I don't know but it's worth throwing out this kind of speculation which sounds awfully much like a popular etymology. But back to it: how to account for a-knestis?
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I was not saying that the a- was the privative prefix, although it makes no less sense than the combing prefix. I was simply saying, along with others, that is looks probable that knēstis and aknēstis are related. Here's what Chatraine has to say: Le mot à rapprocher de κνηστις «râpe à fromage», cf. sous -κναιω, et on admet que les deux termes sont identiques, cf. Bechtel, Gl. 1, 72, Wackernagel, Gl. 2, 1, Bechtel Lexilogus 27, , enfin Leumann, Hom. Wörter 49: ακνηστις serait né d'une coupure fautive, chez Hom., de κατα ακνηστιν en κατ' ακνηστιν. Toutefois il n'est pas absolument impossible que ακνηστις ait été créé dès la langue hom. pour distinguer les deux mots, l'alpha pouvant être une prothèse. I'll see if I can chase down the references cited.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Thanks Bran;
I may never grate cheese again. If in the days before prefixes we skated on bones, who knows what we grated our stuff on. ( you can buy it already grated )
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stranger
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stranger
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a prothetic vowel, if so, that's brilliant.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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 Wow! why did it not occur to me before? About this grate and spine thing: our word for spine is ruggegraat, i.e. rug = back; graat = bone. The bones of fishes are called graten. Etymology unfindable. ( disastrous to have supposedly bright ideas at the point of falling asleep)
Last edited by BranShea; 11/06/09 01:38 AM. Reason: smile
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I had to look this one up:
pro·thet·ic
: the addition of a sound to the beginning of a word (as in Old French estat—whence English estate—from Latin status) (M-W on-line) Cool!
Branny! Here, a rugrat is a small child!
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Ha! That's cool too. Today's rugrats hopefully will be the backbone of tomorrow's society. ;-)
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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ruggegraat
Interesting word. German has Rückgrat 'backbone, spine, chine'; Grat 'ridge, spine, crest'; Gebirgsgrat 'mountain ridge'; Fischgräte, Gräte 'fish bones.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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